What is the true fate of the Entwives?

[Ancalagon]

The Entwife Mystery....

Where in truth do you think the Entwives disappeared to? Why was it really neccesary for them depart at all? Where do you think fate eventually drove them and to what ends?


Previously 'Whatever Happened To The Entwives', now merged with 'Ents'

 

[Greymantle]

They were slaughtered by Sauron, as explicitly stated in the Silmarillion. I do not believe they were taken to Valinor.

 

[Gothmog]

Graymantle,

Could you please tell me where in the Silmrillion it expicitly states that the Entwives were slaughtered by Sauron?

 

[Ancalagon]

Tell me too, I would never have posted if I knew it was severe.

 

[Dengen-Goroth]

Yes, do tell greymantle. I beleive some were in Valinor to begin with, not shipped over on boats made of wood. I doubt they would have ever gone on if they were. Though most likely almost all of them were slaughtered by Sauron.

 

[Greymantle]

Reading over my response-- it sounds so nasty! I didn't mean to be rude.
I'll look for that. The Sil has a pretty crappy index, so I'll do some Tolkien-combing tonight, one of my favorite activites....

 

[Lantarion]

I think Aragorn does say that they were, er, killed off by Sauron, in the chapter 'The Great River', when the Company passes the Brown Lands. I don't know about the Sil, I haven't read that in a while..

 

[Greymantle]

Well...I'm still fairly sure I read that, but I haven't had a chance to do a good search. I found this at the Grey Havens, it's from Letters:

"What happened to them is not resolved in this book. ... I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin. They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult - unless experience of industrialised and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know."
[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 179 (#144)]

This was actually from before LotR was published, so perhaps Tolkien figured out a more specific answer later, or maybe what I read in the Sil was Chistopher taking the story a little farther. I don't know, but I'll keep looking for that passage from the Silmarillion. In the meanwhileI think I'll take back all that "explicitly stated" crap.

 

[Dengen-Goroth]

Great job greymantle. i am quite sure that they all would have been killed of. but if they fled east...not a very good move. Yet I still stnad by my opinion that some existed in Valinor.

 

[Gothmog]

Graymantle, Thank you for the reply. You may be correct in saying that the Entwives had been destroyed, but I cannot remember anything in the Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings that definately stated this.

 

[Legolam]

Where did the Entwives go?

Ever since I read tLOTR when I was 8 (11 years ago), one question has been bothering me:

Where did the Entwives go?

When I first read it, I thought they were somewhere near the Shire, because I remember a hobbit (poss. Hamfast, I'm not sure) saying he'd seen a walking tree near there.

Can any learned person enlighten me?!

 

[Lantarion]

The Entwives lived with the Ents for many ages, but then they became more interested in planting their own gardens than living in the forests, so they packed up and left. They settled in what became the Brown Lands, and built a great and beautiful garden there. But then when Sauron came to power he torched the gardens and I think he killed all of the Entwives. *sniff* Bastard...
It was Sam Gamgee who saw what might have been an Ent in the Shire, and IMHO it was either a Huorn or an Ent(ling).

 

[Snaga]

Oooh excellent I can nitpick on a point of detail!!! Great...

It wasn't Sam who saw the walking tree, it was a friend or a cousin or something, and he was talking about it in the pub - can't remember the name but he worked for Mr Boffin!

An elm tree if memory serves

...That feels good!!!!!

 

[Lantarion]

*glares malevolently at VoK, and fits an arrow to his bowstring*

 

[Thariel]

Ents

I was wondering what happened to the Entwives after they left the Brown Lands due to Sauron destroying it. Below was taken from the Arda Encyclopedia from the net:

It should be said that the fate of the Entwives was never resolved with certainty, but the signs are not hopeful. Tolkien's clearest statement on the matter is to be found in his Letters: 'I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429 - 3441)...' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 144, dated 1954). This is less definite than it might appear, because he goes on to suggest that some might have fled into the east, and finally simply states of their fate, 'I don't know.'

I have a feeling that if, like Tolkien suggested, some of the Entwives survived Sauron's desecration of their lands they were taken by him and changed into Trolls. It would make sense wouldn't it? Orcs were made from Elves, and I read somewhere that Trolls were suspected to of been made from Ents in the same torturous fashion. Mayhap the Trolls are the Entwives. Anyone have any ideas or opinions?

 

[Eonwe]

what about the beginning of the FOTR where Sam talks about seeing a tree moving in the forests near the Shire, and later Treebeard says Entwives would like the Shire? I always thought that maybe it meant at least one of the Entwives went to live in the Shire.

 

[Lantarion]

This is being discussed at another thread, check it out.
Welcome, Thariel!

 

[Eonwe]

where? At least give us a link! You spect me to search for it or something?

 

[Grond]

We will never know as the author never definatively states what became of them.

 

[Mithrandir_II]

In Letters doesn't tolkien mention that the Entwives were probably killed off in the Second Age when Sauron mounted his first successful attack on Middle-earth and burned most of the lands west of Misty Mountains? This would be before Gondor and Arnor were founded and before The Last Alliance.

I seem to remember reading that once upon a time.