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What kept Gollum from fading?

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Feb 19, 2018
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Gandalf outright stated that one that kept the Ring for long and used it to make oneself invisible would eventually fade and become a wraith or something. And he says that this would happen even if one had started out with good intentions and had some strength. However, Smeagol/Gollum started his ownership of the Ring with murder and probably didn't have any level of strength on par with the likes of Aragorn or the kings of Numenor, yet he was able to have some part of him untouched by the Ring (or so it seems, though maybe it fell in the very end), and he also did not fade.

Why was he able to do this? Was it merely because he was a Hobbit? Does this also mean that, in another universe, where a total takeover of the world by Sauron wasn't on the table, that theoretically a Bilbo that didn't give up the Ring was also never become a wraith?
 
Erm ...

"Tolkien stated that he invented Tom Bombadil in memory of his children's Dutch doll."
So his closest relative is Roverandom of the roughly 100-page 1998 book edited by Christina Scull and Wayne G. Hammond; dedicated to Michael Tolkien, JRRT's second son, who had lost his toy dog so named in a 1925 summer vacation ...
 
My dear Deimos…
I should think it needed no explanation. It is, of course, based only on what we learn of him from LoTR, and no other extended information.
Let’s face it… anyone living hidden away with but one other person and a pony, prancing around singing to himself, his lady friend, and the rain and trees all the time, not involving himself in or caring about anything else going on anywhere else in the world, unless it just happens to come to him for some reason as he never goes to it… is leading a very narrow little life indeed.

The only thing making him more than an isolated little hermit is his lady friend…and his failure to care for the rest of the world is little better than the hobbits’ is, or even gollums. He lives entirely for his own self-interest as it is enhanced by his lady friend.

He’s also so fuddle-brained he can’t be trusted.

There’s little to nothing to suggest he’s worth many passing thoughts.
That said, for some reason Gandalf thinks its worth his time to go and ‘have such a chat with him as he has not had in many an age’ (or however it is he says that.)
Such a statement, frankly, leaves me quite baffled.

If there are intrinsic qualities, involvements, adventures, or cares and concerns Bombadil has for anyone other than himself, and his very minor aid to the hobbits in their need, do let me know.

If they are from sources external to LoTR that’s fine… I haven’t indulged in other Bombadil-related information yet as its just hardly worth the time given his insignificant role in the affairs of all that was important to the free-peoples of the world.

P.s. - I chose not to ‘step outside’ yet, as I feel others following this should also know why I think what I think. We can, now, find some existing thread on Bombadil… I’m sure there are some somewhere…. To continue the discussion if/as needed.
I think you are being too hard on Bombadil. He is not as isolationistic (is that a word?) as you make him out to be. The book states that he knows Farmer Maggot and had recently had a conversation with him. Also, why would he need a whole guest wing on his home if he was such a hermit?
My impression, with out much in the books to support this, is that Bombadil used to be much more involved in the world. For instance, he knew about the people who were buried in the Barrow Downs and mentioned that one of them was pretty; he must have had some interaction with them. Plus the elves knew about him and there was enough respect of him to consider giving him the One Ring to guard. Maybe after all of his pervious world involvement, he's decided to take a sabbatical.
 
I think you are being too hard on Bombadil. He is not as isolationistic (is that a word?) as you make him out to be. The book states that he knows Farmer Maggot and had recently had a conversation with him. Also, why would he need a whole guest wing on his home if he was such a hermit?
My impression, with out much in the books to support this, is that Bombadil used to be much more involved in the world. For instance, he knew about the people who were buried in the Barrow Downs and mentioned that one of them was pretty; he must have had some interaction with them. Plus the elves knew about him and there was enough respect of him to consider giving him the One Ring to guard. Maybe after all of his pervious world involvement, he's decided to take a sabbatical.
^^^THIS^^^
(Well said... Welcome to Team Bombadil 😁)

@Starbrow... read Bombadil Goes Boating... I think you will like it well enough....actually very well, indeed.
 
My, my. What a firestorm is ignited by my comments.
Let's sort something out.
First, I don't speak of Bombadil as he "was" before, or as he "may have been" at some point.
I'm well aware he's a complex character, and had (and still has) occassional involvements with such as Maggot.

What I'm speaking of is what we KNOW about, and what he DID 'in the present time' at the time of M-e's greatest needs.

A person is not known by what he says, or what we surmise based on skimpy information or data.
A person is known by what he DOES.
And to borrow from the illustrious Spider Man movie, 'with great power comes great responsibility'.

What we know about Bombadil is... he did nothing.
Oh he was congenial, and in his muddled way, possibly enjoyed guests at some point in the past... and an occassional chat with a farmer when he was out and about... (at least we know of one)... but he had no conscious or demonstrated care for the peoples of M-e whatsoever... unless THEY happened to come across HIM in HIS territory. (At the time of the 3rd age and LoTR. again, NOT speaking of whatever MAY have happened in the past.)

He was very like the Ents, hoping the world would just pass him by... but at least the Ents were roused in the end.

There is one other possibility I could entertain, with some difficulty:
....his trust in Eru was so great, he already knew everything was going to work out fine, and he had just one small role to play in the events...i.e. get the hobbits moved along on their way. (There is some hint he really didn't "just happen" to stumble upon the hobbits when Mr. Willow was trying to have a snack.)

but we must face the fact he was simply otherwise 'uninvolved' in the events in M-e.

Much like the rest of the hobbits, who only dealt with that part of the problem 'coming their way' in their own 'safe' digs... though they simply bowed to the will of the invaders, until a hobbit or 4 with some grit returned. (One of them speaks an incredible line: "It's about time someone raised the Shire!" to which I add "but I'm certainly not going to be the one to do it..!!" The common trait of the complacent... "somebody needs to do it, just not me. that person over there, maybe."

Given Tom's (apparent) muddling of brain though, it's likely just as well he stayed out of the way as there's little he would have cared for or about on a journey to anywhere, not caring a whit for the struggles others had in areas he seemed to have none.

Am I 'harsh' on Mr. Bombadil? Possibly. Perhaps he actually had great wisdom about his shortcomings - so purposely chose to keep out of the way.

I'm sure he was a wonderful person to know... as noted above, the Elves and Wise certainly felt so.
He just wasn't involved in anything, or to be relied upon, outside of his own little sphere, when it came to a "do".

I know I stand in the minority. Certainly the Great Gandalf didn't rue him his lack of involvement and participation. I shall try to carve out some charity for the oaf.

This is why I've indicated I'll go back and review everything.

If I can determine his faith in Eru and connection to what was unfolding was so great he just knew he needed no further involvement for 'the universe (to) unfold as it should' (Spock, Star Trek VI), then I'll change my perspective and grant he's the most prescient of them all. (which he could well be, given his enigmatic status in the canon.)
 
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So I have begun a read of In The House of Tom Bombadil. By C.R Wiley, a minor treatise on Bombadil and Goldberry it seems.
Perhaps this will give the Huron some enlightenment into matters Bombadil and beyond.
“More at 11”. (Or whenever I get done with it.)
 
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