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What of the other 🧙Istari?

Pretty much what you just said is all we know. Unfinished Tales gives a bit more information on all the Istari (all their Valinorian names) but as far as the blue wizards, they went into the East and out of the tales of the Ring. That is all that we know.

As far as Radagast, because he directly linked himself to ME, I would venture that he never passed into the West, but remained in ME.

Only Gandalf and Saruman were directly involved in the battle for ME, and only Gandalf remained faithful out of all the 5 Istari since they came from the West.
 
What do you mean by Radagast linked himself to middle earth? Also, do you think he had any powers similiar to those of Gandalf? I know he could talk to birds and had a special relationship with them. It seems to me that Gandalf would have done well to recruit Radagast to fight with them.
 
Well certainaly he had some powers greater than simple humans. After all he was a Maia and belonged to the Order of the Istari.
 
Astaldo said:
I don't think that Radagast stopped being faithful. He was just deceived by Saruman. This does not making him a bad guy.
Radagast stopped being faithful because he did not take an active part in the battles against Sauron. He did not fall into evil but he did not do all in his power to combat it. This is the diference between him and Gandalf and also Saruman. Saruman fell into Evil while Gandalf did all that he was able to do in the fight against Sauron.

So while Radagast was not a "Bad Guy" as you say, he still stopped being faithful.
Now about Alatar and Pallando. Maybe they were corrupted by Sauron and stayed to the South corrupting Haradrims etc.
Tolkien gave a couple of views on this. One was that they fell into evil and were the start of "magic cults", another is that they did remain faithful to the mission and ensured that the armies of Sauron were less than they would have been otherwise. We do not however, have any certain answer.
It seems to me that Gandalf would have done well to recruit Radagast to fight with them
Gandalf did gain as much help from Radagast as he could. It was through Radagast that the Eagles were involved at all.
 
Where is it mentioned that Radagast is responsible for the Eagles being involved? I ask in a genuine manner, I do not doubt you, but I also do not remember reading that.
 
Gothmog said:
Radagast stopped being faithful because he did not take an active part in the battles against Sauron. He did not fall into evil but he did not do all in his power to combat it. This is the diference between him and Gandalf and also Saruman. Saruman fell into Evil while Gandalf did all that he was able to do in the fight against Sauron.

So while Radagast was not a "Bad Guy" as you say, he still stopped being faithful.
I dind't think it like this. Thanks for this new clue. :)
 
JPMaximilian said:
Where is it mentioned that Radagast is responsible for the Eagles being involved? I ask in a genuine manner, I do not doubt you, but I also do not remember reading that.
From the Fellowship of the Ring: The Council of Elrond.
` "Stay a moment! " I said. "We shall need your help, and the help of all things that will give it. Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends. Tell them to bring news of anything that bears on this matter to Saruman and Gandalf. Let messages be sent to Orthanc."
` "I will do that," he said, and rode off as if the Nine were after him.
This was Gandalf talking to Radagast. Later in the chapter Gandalf says
`That was the undoing of Saruman's plot. For Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.
`So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, and Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orthanc; and he found me standing on the pinnacle. Then I spoke to him and he bore me away, before Saruman was aware. I was far from Isengard, ere the wolves and orcs issued from the gate to pursue me.
So it was because of Radagast that Gwaihir the Windlord became involved then and later in the the battle of the Black Gate. :)

I dind't think it like this. Thanks for this new clue.
Glad to help :)
 
Thorin said:
as far as the blue wizards, they went into the East and out of the tales of the Ring. That is all that we know.
hehe... went east and started "magic cults", maybe they became Buddha and Lao Tzu... :D

Just kidding.

As for Radagast...

Gothmog said:
He did not fall into evil but he did not do all in his power to combat it.
Maybe, but there is more than one way to combat evil, and the threat was not just to humans and other peoples, but to trees, animals, and the earth itself. Gandalf focused on people, Radagast focused on herbs and animals... maybe this wasn't so faithless after all.

(But this is coming from an environmentalist) ;)
 
Elemmire said:
Maybe, but there is more than one way to combat evil, and the threat was not just to humans and other peoples, but to trees, animals, and the earth itself. Gandalf focused on people, Radagast focused on herbs and animals... maybe this wasn't so faithless after all.

(But this is coming from an environmentalist) ;)
It is true that there is indeed more than one way to combat evil. However, Radagast seems to have done little to protect the plants and animals and this is where he failed in his mission and "Stopped being faithful". He was still very far from being in any way Evil.
 
Gothmog said:
It is true that there is indeed more than one way to combat evil. However, Radagast seems to have done little to protect the plants and animals and this is where he failed in his mission and "Stopped being faithful". He was still very far from being in any way Evil.
Alright... I know you weren't implying he was evil...

This might show off my ignorance (what can I say? I'm a First Age specialist whose favourite characters all died thousands of years before LotR started - though none by your hands, my favourite balrog :p - and had no obsessive desire to reread LotR a thousand times... ;) ), but where is it implied that Radagast stopped protecting plants and animals and whatnot? Your quotes from before would suggest otherwise, I think... Still, one way or the other, is it really said anywhere whether or not he remained faithful to his own chosen cause?
 
This might show off my ignorance
Not at all. It shows that you wish to increase your knowledge. This is the same as me :)
but where is it implied that Radagast stopped protecting plants and animals and whatnot? Your quotes from before would suggest otherwise, I think... Still, one way or the other, is it really said anywhere whether or not he remained faithful to his own chosen cause?
It is true that in the LotR there is little to say either way about Radagast, though the lack of noted help from a powerful Maia during the War of the Ring does indicate that he was not as active as he could have been. However, In the book Unfinished Tales the essay on the Istari contains the following from Tolkien.
Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Numenor of old, and signifies, it is said, "tender of beasts"). 4 And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he.

But the last-comer was named among the Elves Mithrandir, the Grey Pilgrim, for he dwelt in no place, and gathered to himself neither wealth nor followers, but ever went to and fro in the Westlands from Gondor to Angmar, and from Lindon to Lórien, befriending all folk in times of need. Warm and eager was his spirit (and it was enhanced by the ring Narya), for he was the enemy of Sauron, opposing the fire that devours and wastes with the fire that kindles, and succours in wanhope and distress; but his joy, and his swift wrath, were veiled in garments grey as ash, so that only those that knew him well glimpsed the flame that was within.
So it would seem that Radagast failed in his mission because he did not work actively to the destruction of Sauron. He got sidetracted into the study of Plants and Animals. However, he did still give some help.
 
Okay. Interesting... Yeah, I don't own a copy of the Unfinished Tales, and haven't actually looked at it for a while. Hm... I wonder what my mom would think if I came home in Thanksgiving with no money left but the Unfinished Tales and HoME in its entirity? Hm... better not try... :D

As for Curunir... hm... it seems that I can't get beyond "Curu" without getting slightly angry... Curunir, Curufin... grrrr.... :mad:

Sorry. Really random rant.

Oooookay........ back to the Istari...
 
Even if Radagast was "unfaithful" he was still good at heart I believe. I would like to think that he lived out a long life in Mirkwood in relative peace. Though he did not do all in his power to combat evil, he did resist the will of Sauron whilst the more powerful Saruman could not. I believe that is a tribute to the character of Radagast.
 
I definitely agree. I was going to add something else, but my brain is functioning even less than before (it's 1:30 here)...

Radagast might not have been faithful to the initial cause of the Istari (and only the Valar...and maybe Cirdan...know what that was), but in the end, his own, less direct contributions proved equally important (especially with the eagles, as Gothmog already said a while ago...)

Allllllright. I'm going to bed. :p
 
Now about Alatar and Pallando. Maybe they were corrupted by Sauron and stayed to the South corrupting Haradrims etc.
Tolkien gave a couple of views on this. One was that they fell into evil and were the start of "magic cults", another is that they did remain faithful to the mission and ensured that the armies of Sauron were less than they would have been otherwise. We do not however, have any certain answer.
I agree, there is no certainty about the Ithryn Luin. Not even their names, Alatar and Pallando, can be taken for granted...
 
Walter said:
Not even their names, Alatar and Pallando, can be taken for granted...
anyone want to look at the names?
Here are the Quenya roots...

- (2) negative prefix "not"
ala (3) "after, beyond"
tar (2) "beyond" (FS)


Allllright... so maybe "beyond beyond" isn't exactly likely... but it could be for emphasis ???


"wide, expansive" (PAL)
palan- "far, distant, wide, to a great extent"
-ando masculine agentive suffix

 
JPMaximilian said:
Unless I am mistaken, five Istari were sent to Middle Earth. Gandalf and Saruman make two, Radagast, who is barely mentioned, three. I recall Tolkien writing that the other Istari go into the East and do not come into these tales. What becomes of Radagast? Would not the other Istari, with their power, play a part in the War of the Ring?

Here is what I have from A Guide to Tolkien by David Day:

===============================

"Many of the Ainur were counted among the Maiar, but only a few are named in the histories that have come down to Men: Eönwë, Herald of Manwë; Ilmarë, Maid of Varda; Ossë, of the Waves; Uinen, of the Calm Seas; Melian, Queen of the Sindar; Arien, the Sun; Tilion, the Moon; Sauron, the Sorcerer; Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs; and Olórin (Gandalf), Aiwendil (Radagast), Curunír (Saruman), Alatar and Pallando – the Wizards. In the histories of Middle-earth there also appear others who may have been Maiar: Thuringwethil, the Vampire; Ungoliant, the Spider; Draugluin the Werewolf; Goldberry, the River-daughter; and Iarwain Ben-adar (Tom Bombadil). ...

"Although five Istari are said to have come to Middle-earth, two play no part in the histories of the Westlands that have come to Men, for the others were said to have gone to the far east of Middle-earth. These two were the Ithryn Luin, the "Blue Wizards", and though it is known that they were called Alatar and Pallando in the Undying Lands and were chosen by the Vala Oromë the Horseman, nothing else is known of their lives and deeds. ...

"At the end of the first millennium of the Third Age of the Sun, it is told that five Maiar came to Middle-earth. They came not in grand forms but in the shape of ancient Men. Each was white-bearded and wore a traveller's cape, a beaked hat, and carried a long staff. These were the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards and much of their tale is told in the "Red Book of Westmarch". Yet only three of the five are named in the histories. Radagast the Brown was a master of birds and animals of the forest and lived near Mirkwood in Rhosgobel. Saruman the White was in the arising of the Istari Order counted the greatest, and for a time he was indeed skilful and wise, but he fell into evil ways, brought ruin down upon many and was himself completely destroyed in his efforts to make himself a great power. Gandalf the Grey was most famous of the Istari. In the beginning he was called Olórin and he served both Lórien the Master of Dreams and Nienna the Weeper; he was acknowledged the wisest of the Maiar race. The last two of the Istari were Alatar and Pallando, called the Blue Wizards and servants of Oromë, the Horseman. Of their fate and deeds upon Middle-earth little is told."

===============================

Barley
 
David Day is usually not considered the most reliable of sources concerning Tolkien's writings...

In the Istari essay in Unfinished Tales Christopher Tolkien mentions that in the remaining writings of his father he found a few more notes, but those were ''"...no more than very rapid jottings, often illegible..."'', one of them contained rough tables relating the names of the Istari to the names of the Valar who had chosen them: Olórin to Manwë and Varda, Curumo to Aulë, Aiwendil to Yavanna, Alatar to Oromë, and Pallando also to Oromë.

According to these tables the names of the remaining two Wizards - whom we could presume to be the BlueWizards - would be Alatar and Pallando.

But in HoMeXII Christopher Tolkien states that he had been able to make out two of the notes he had considered "illegible" at first. The first note reads as follows:

No names are recorded for the two wizards. They were never seen or known in lands west of Mordor. The wizards did not come at the same time. Possibly Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast did, but more likely Saruman the chief (and already over mindful of this) came first and alone. Probably Gandalf and Radagast came together, though this has not yet been said. ... (what is most probable) ... Glorfindel also met Gandalf at the Havens. The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath was letting out a piece of private information

HoMeXII - The Five Wizards

The last sentence of the previous quotation is a reference to Saruman mentioning "Five Wizards" in The Two Towers. The other note reads as:

The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war of Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had a very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the east ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

ibid.

In a draft for a letter Tolkien wrote 1956:

There is hardly any reference in The Lord of the Rings to things that do not actually exist(*) on its own plane (of secondary or sub-creational reality): sc. have been written.

(*)The cats of Queen Beruthiel and the names and adventures of the other 2 wizards (5 minus Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast) are all that I recollect.

Letters #180

Christopher Tolkien, however, mentions in his comment to the Istari-essay, that ''even the story of Queen Berúthiel does exist, however, if only in a very "primitive" outline, in one part illegible''...

Thus, on speculative terms the names of the two "BlueWizards" could be either Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo (or Róme(n)star). However, this cannot be considered a fact, we can not even be sure, that Tolkien eventually intendend give the names of the Ithryn Luin!
 
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