What was the biggest cause of tragedies in Turin Turambar's life?

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 12, 2022

The Tale of Too Many Turins.

Did one of them at least live in Turin? 🤔

Elbereth Vala Varda · Aug 12, 2022

Hmm... I will have to ponder this one..

Elthir · Aug 12, 2022

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
Did one of them at least live in Turin? 🤔

That place with (as the story goes anyway) the Nietzsche/horse incident.

Elbereth Vala Varda · Aug 12, 2022

Hmm. Very intriguing. I'll have to research that for certain.

Elthir · Aug 12, 2022

Emphasis on story -- I read at least on article about Nietzsche/Turin/the horse which claims the facts surrounding this tale are thin.

Interesting though!

Elbereth Vala Varda · Aug 12, 2022

It does sound interesting indeed!

Gothmog · Aug 12, 2022

Elthir said:
I had read it again -- which is why I said Turin_Turambar "seems" to be talking about the Dagor Dagorath as if it has already happened (meaning that he does write that way, but perhaps does
not really think this).

I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt -- that by treating the prophecy as a fact, Turin_Turambar might simply be employing a tense that is technically off.

And I am just pointing out to him that even if it was Mandos himself that made the prophecy, it was still something that was only foretold to occur in the future and not something that has already happened.

Elbereth Vala Varda · Aug 12, 2022

True. Mandos was predicting that which would come to pass, not speaking of that which already had, and not changing Time itself into his own design.

Elthir · Aug 13, 2022

Gothmog said:
To consider the prophecy as "Fact" you also have to consider that the prophecy is in the "Future" and the words used would reflect this. "turing will be", "turin will kill", "turin will defeat".

Turin_Turumbar wrote (for examples):

"In dagor dagorath, turin turambar is the one who will kill melkor." Oct 13 2021

"one is the one who will kill the melkor [Turin] and the other is the one who leaves the melkor lame. [Fingolfin]" May 8th 2021

"but in the battle of dagor dagorath it is turin who will kill the melkor." May9 2021

(and in response to: "Good would triumph over evil. Manwe would win.") "Of course what you say this will happen in Dagor Dagorath." Jan 26th 2022

And yes, in plenty of other posts he uses a tense as if the events of the Prophecy have already occurred (sometimes in the same post as the "will statements"), but again I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt on this topic, especially those who have noted. . .

"my native language is not english but the term "defeat" is used for turin on the internet against melkor." March 26 2022

Gothmog · Aug 13, 2022

Elthir said:
Turin_Turumbar wrote (for examples):

"In dagor dagorath, turin turambar is the one who will kill melkor." Oct 13 2021

"one is the one who will kill the melkor [Turin] and the other is the one who leaves the melkor lame. [Fingolfin]" May 8th 2021

"but in the battle of dagor dagorath it is turin who will kill the melkor." May9 2021

(and in response to: "Good would triumph over evil. Manwe would win.") "Of course what you say this will happen in Dagor Dagorath." Jan 26th 2022

And yes, in plenty of other posts he uses a tense as if the events of the Prophecy have already occurred (sometimes in the same post as the "will statements"), but again I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt on this topic, especially those who have noted. . .

"my native language is not english but the term "defeat" is used for turin on the internet against melkor." March 26 2022

I see. So it is my way of debating a particular post is what is at fault. It also seems that I am likely to run into this issue in the future if I continue posting on here. The simplest answer then is that I will cease to do so. Farewell.

Elthir · Aug 15, 2022

Gothmog, you posted a reasonable reaction based on a given post . . . I've just pointed out that our friend Turin has also said "will" in other posts . . . so the matter might not be that he thinks that these events have already occurred.

Maybe he does think so. Turin hasn't weighed in . . . I'm not even sure he himself cares!

Are you actually leaving the forums?

And if I have annoyed you here -- it can't be for the first time

Heck, half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent, and the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando . . . and these fail at even that!

Just kidding Gando. The actual numbers are much smaller

Áramandë Amaniel · Aug 15, 2022

Elthir said:
half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent

Sayeth this not! For I am sure the Valar understands well thy ways!

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 15, 2022

Elthir said:
the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando

Hey, how about me? Don't you want to annoy me? 😥

(Sigh) OK --guess I'll go drown my sorrows in 🥓.

And 🍳

Ent · Aug 15, 2022

Elthir said:
Gothmog, you made a reasonable assumption based on a given post . . . I've just pointed out that our friend Turin has also said "will" in other posts . . . so the matter might not be that he thinks that these events have already occurred.

Maybe he does think so. Turin hasn't weighed in . . . I'm not even sure he himself cares!

Are you actually leaving the forums?

And if I have annoyed you here -- it can't be for the first time

Heck, half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent, and the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando . . . and these fail at even that!

Just kidding Gando. The actual numbers are much smaller

RE: @Gothmog and his potential departure - And so we see once again how "little things can become big things" and intents and meanings are so easily misconstrued, through this medium of the 'typed word.'

We can hope he returns, and does not vanish into the deep pits of the earth where his thoughts and input will no longer be available.

Elthir · Aug 15, 2022

Isn't it supposed to be "drown" not down . . . and if that's annoying -- then you're welcome S-ES!

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 15, 2022

Curse thee, Autocorrect! 🤬

Elbereth Vala Varda · Aug 15, 2022

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
(Sigh) OK --guess I'll go drown my sorrows in 🥓.

Seems like a good place to start-- for consolation, before you turn to Nienna.

Áramandë Amaniel · Aug 15, 2022

Elbereth Vala Varda said:
Seems like a good place to start-- for consolation, before you turn to Nienna.

Or to me.

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 15, 2022

Not to worry-- I'm always prepared.

Áramandë Amaniel · Aug 15, 2022

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
Not to worry-- I'm always prepared.
View attachment 14992

Good - we don't have that thing in Valinor.

What was the biggest cause of tragedies in Turin Turambar's life?

What was the biggest cause of tragedies in Turin Turambar's life?

his stubbornness and arrogance

the curse of morgoth

the lies and magic of dragon glaurung

his wrong decisions

his not marrying finduilas

other reasons

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