What was the biggest cause of tragedies in Turin Turambar's life?

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

The Tale of Too Many Turins.

Did one of them at least live in Turin? 🤔

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Hmm... I will have to ponder this one..

 

[Elthir]

Did one of them at least live in Turin? 🤔

That place with (as the story goes anyway) the Nietzsche/horse incident.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Hmm. Very intriguing. I'll have to research that for certain.

 

[Elthir]

Emphasis on story -- I read at least on article about Nietzsche/Turin/the horse which claims the facts surrounding this tale are thin.

Interesting though!

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

It does sound interesting indeed!

 

[Gothmog]

I had read it again -- which is why I said Turin_Turambar "seems" to be talking about the Dagor Dagorath as if it has already happened (meaning that he does write that way, but perhaps does
not really think this).



I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt -- that by treating the prophecy as a fact, Turin_Turambar might simply be employing a tense that is technically off.

And I am just pointing out to him that even if it was Mandos himself that made the prophecy, it was still something that was only foretold to occur in the future and not something that has already happened.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

True. Mandos was predicting that which would come to pass, not speaking of that which already had, and not changing Time itself into his own design.

 

[Elthir]

To consider the prophecy as "Fact" you also have to consider that the prophecy is in the "Future" and the words used would reflect this. "turing will be", "turin will kill", "turin will defeat".

Turin_Turumbar wrote (for examples):

"In dagor dagorath, turin turambar is the one who will kill melkor." Oct 13 2021

"one is the one who will kill the melkor [Turin] and the other is the one who leaves the melkor lame. [Fingolfin]" May 8th 2021

"but in the battle of dagor dagorath it is turin who will kill the melkor." May9 2021

(and in response to: "Good would triumph over evil. Manwe would win.") "Of course what you say this will happen in Dagor Dagorath." Jan 26th 2022

And yes, in plenty of other posts he uses a tense as if the events of the Prophecy have already occurred (sometimes in the same post as the "will statements"), but again I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt on this topic, especially those who have noted. . .

"my native language is not english but the term "defeat" is used for turin on the internet against melkor." March 26 2022

 

[Gothmog]

Turin_Turumbar wrote (for examples):

"In dagor dagorath, turin turambar is the one who will kill melkor." Oct 13 2021

"one is the one who will kill the melkor [Turin] and the other is the one who leaves the melkor lame. [Fingolfin]" May 8th 2021

"but in the battle of dagor dagorath it is turin who will kill the melkor." May9 2021

(and in response to: "Good would triumph over evil. Manwe would win.") "Of course what you say this will happen in Dagor Dagorath." Jan 26th 2022

And yes, in plenty of other posts he uses a tense as if the events of the Prophecy have already occurred (sometimes in the same post as the "will statements"), but again I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt on this topic, especially those who have noted. . .

"my native language is not english but the term "defeat" is used for turin on the internet against melkor." March 26 2022

I see. So it is my way of debating a particular post is what is at fault. It also seems that I am likely to run into this issue in the future if I continue posting on here. The simplest answer then is that I will cease to do so. Farewell.

 

[Elthir]

Gothmog, you posted a reasonable reaction based on a given post . . . I've just pointed out that our friend Turin has also said "will" in other posts . . . so the matter might not be that he thinks that these events have already occurred.

Maybe he does think so. Turin hasn't weighed in . . . I'm not even sure he himself cares!

Are you actually leaving the forums?

And if I have annoyed you here -- it can't be for the first time

Heck, half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent, and the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando . . . and these fail at even that!

Just kidding Gando. The actual numbers are much smaller

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent

Sayeth this not! For I am sure the Valar understands well thy ways!

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando

Hey, how about me? Don't you want to annoy me? 😥

(Sigh) OK --guess I'll go drown my sorrows in 🥓.

And 🍳

 

[Ent]

Gothmog, you made a reasonable assumption based on a given post . . . I've just pointed out that our friend Turin has also said "will" in other posts . . . so the matter might not be that he thinks that these events have already occurred.

Maybe he does think so. Turin hasn't weighed in . . . I'm not even sure he himself cares!

Are you actually leaving the forums?

And if I have annoyed you here -- it can't be for the first time

Heck, half my posts are nonsense, one third are incoherent, and the other two thirds are largely to annoy Gando . . . and these fail at even that!

Just kidding Gando. The actual numbers are much smaller

RE: @Gothmog and his potential departure - And so we see once again how "little things can become big things" and intents and meanings are so easily misconstrued, through this medium of the 'typed word.'

We can hope he returns, and does not vanish into the deep pits of the earth where his thoughts and input will no longer be available.

 

[Elthir]

Isn't it supposed to be "drown" not down . . . and if that's annoying -- then you're welcome S-ES!

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Curse thee, Autocorrect! 🤬

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

(Sigh) OK --guess I'll go drown my sorrows in 🥓.

Seems like a good place to start-- for consolation, before you turn to Nienna.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Seems like a good place to start-- for consolation, before you turn to Nienna.

Or to me.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Not to worry-- I'm always prepared.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Not to worry-- I'm always prepared.
View attachment 14992

Good - we don't have that thing in Valinor.