Which are the Two Towers?

[Eonwe]

I can't find the thread, if I do I will post the link.

I think that logically it is Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol that are referred to, since these are the two towers in the book where all the action takes place. But of course (Poupon) it could be Orthanc and Barad-dur, etc.

 

[Greenwood]

Tolkien never liked the title and had a hard time himself deciding which two towers were referred to. In his letters (letter 140 to his publisher, August 17, 1953) he says it "can be left ambiguous - it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dur, or to Minas Tirith and B[arad-dur]; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol." But in a later letter to his publisher (letter 143, Jan. 22, 1954) he says: "I am not at all happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading."

 

[Beorn]

Perhaps you should check out:

http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2787&highlight=orthanc+towers

 

[Niniel]

I noticed there was a poll already about this, but I wanted to ask a question that has bothered me quite some time: Just which towers are the Tow Towers? I thought they were Orthanc and Minas Tirith, but I also read that it wasn't completely clear which they were. I suppose they also might be Orthanc and the one in which Frodo is captured by the Orcs (is that Minas Morgul?), because they are the two towers that are actually in the book.
But the TTT trailer starts with: 'There is an alliance now between the Two Towers, Orthanc and Barad-Dur!' I suppose they put that in to make it clear to everyone else who was wondering what the two towers were, but I'm still not sure if they're right about this. Does anyone now if Tolkien himself has ever cleared this up?

 

[Úlairi]

Niniel, I have always thought of the 'Two Towers' as the ones that Gil-galad built for Elendil and his sons, Isildur and Anarion. Minas Anor, becoming Minas Tirith, and Minas Ithil which becomes Minas Morgul.

P.S. That's 400!

 

[Tar-Palantir]

At the end of FoTR (the book), it says: "Here ends the first part of the War of the Ring. The second part is called the Two Towers, since the events recounted in it are dominated by Orthanc, the citidel of Saruman, and the fortress of Minas Morgul that guards the secret entrance to Mordor."

Now it could well be that this quote was generated by the publisher and not Tolkien (that it my belief). This was debated on a thread a while back and, if memory serves, someone quoted Tolkien in Letters as saying it should have referred to Orthanc and Cirith Ungol (I may be wrong on this and will glady accept a correction - my recall ain't what it used to be).

I originally thought Cirith Ungol would have been correct but, after thinking about it, maybe Minas Morgul makes more sense. Certainly many more chapters were directly affected by the Witch King's citadel if you include the Faramir episodes.

As for the movie, I guess PJ is trying to simplify things.

 

[Tar-Palantir]

Ok, scroll around til you find Rangerdave's thread polling about the Two Towers. The letter I referred to is there....and so is your answer

 

[Greenwood]

I had posted it on RangerDave's poll thread, but here it is again.

Tolkien never liked the title and had a hard time himself deciding which two towers were referred to. In his letters (letter 140 to his publisher, August 17, 1953) he says it "can be left ambiguous - it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dur, or to Minas Tirith and B[arad-dur]; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol." But in a later letter to his publisher (letter 143, Jan. 22, 1954) he says: "I am not at all happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading."

So the answer is Orthanc and Cirith Ungol ..... maybe.

 

[Tao]

I always thought it was referring to either Barud-Dur and Isengard or Barud-Dur and Minas Tirith...thanks for the note though, Greenwood. It clears a lot of things up for me.

 

[Lantarion]

It would make sense both ways.
Isengard and Barad-dûr were the two main outposts of the 'evil' powers, Sauron and Saruman.
Barad-dûr and Minas Tirith, on the other hand, were the two main embattled powers in the WR.

I don't really know what to think. But either one suits me fine.

 

[Anamatar IV]

i actually think its barad dur and minas morgul. the 2 towe rs of the dark land.

 

[HLGStrider]

I really don't know. I've been wondering and wondering and wondering...

I think it's more romantic for it to be Minas Tirith and Barad Dur, because it's like saying Good vs. Evil... It makes more sense for it to be Orthanc and Minas Morgul, where the watchers are...

 

[Sam_Gamgee]

I would guess cirth ungol and minas tirith even though minas tirth is not really really active till TROTK but weren't they the two towers of gondor until cirth ugol fell and got its new name (i dont remeber the original name of cirith ungol)

 

[Sam_Gamgee]

i mean minas tirith and minas morgul not cirth ungol sorry im lending out my book and i can't check myself for mistakes

 

[Anamatar IV]

doesnt ne1 agree that its minas morgul and barad-dur. Minas Tirith isnt talked about at all in the book. So that eliminates that. Even though i beleive its barad-dur adn minas morgul it makes more sense to be orthance and minas morgul,

 

[Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn]

It was also pointed out that Tolkien did not approve of the 3-volume publication format. He wanted a six-volume format; he had individual titles for each of the six "books".

So it's hardly fair to ask what two towers were intended, since he didn't even want "The Two Towers" to be published in its present form at all.

That's why I say the two towers are Orthanc, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Cirith Ungol, and Barad-dur...

 

[Úlairi]

Perhaps someone could actually find some more evidence somewhere to really tell us what the Two Towers were?

 

[Greenwood]

Originally posted by Ulairi
Perhaps someone could actually find some more evidence somewhere to really tell us what the Two Towers were?

I don't see how you are going to come up with any evidence more definitive that Tolkien's own view in his letters.

 

[Úlairi]

Perhaps not. I was hopeful that there may be another 'letter' concerning the subject or if JRRT commented it anywhere else in his writings but I suppose not.

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

My book has pics of both topwers and they say minas morgul (white tower of the moon) and orthanc (black)
with the white hand and eye of sauron
it represents the communication and important event witnessed and instigated between those 2 allys part enemies