Who was the mightiest 🧝elf: Fingolfin or Hurin?

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Grond
The Last Battle is a legend in which Turin is supposed to vanquish Melkor aka it hasn't happened. The only non-Valar entity to tie in physically with the Melkor-meister is Fingolfin and he whipped Melkor's butt pretty well until he tired. (It's hard to match the stamina of a god, ain't it). So, until the Daegorlad is fought, I'll give my vote to Fingolfin, after all, I never even came close to hitting him. It was swing and miss, swing and miss, swing and miss. Well, you get the picture.

What about huan the hound of valinor do you think he could beat morgoth? And i respect your opinion about fingolfin but i still think Turin could beat him because although it has not happened Turamabar steps up a level in the greatest battle ever and destroys a god (bauglir) shall he not have to havemore stamina then melkor himself. Im not dissing Fingolfin or anything he was a mightiest elf king to live but he couldn't beat melkor and turin can.

 

[Grond]

Beleg, all I'm saying is that in the Histories of Middle-earth, the last battle hasn't been fought while Fingolfin's has. The prophecy you speak of hasn't occurred so one can't determine if it is a 'true' prophecy. The author's own words tell us that Fingolfin perished in hand to hand combat with Melkor. It takes much more courage and innate greatness to actually face a god than it does to say that someone is "supposed" to beat Melkor at "some" later date.

That's all I'm saying. If the "Last Battle" occurs and Turin destroys Melkor, I will fully concur with your opinion and scream to the far corners of the world, "Turin is the greatest of the great". Until then, Fingolfin gets my vote.

As for Huan, he was one of my favorite characters in the Sil; however he was killed by Carcharoth, the greatest werewolf to ever live but a mere werewolf none the less. That would bring Huan down severl rungs on the WWF power rating system in my book.

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Grond
Beleg, all I'm saying is that in the Histories of Middle-earth, the last battle hasn't been fought while Fingolfin's has. The prophecy you speak of hasn't occurred so one can't determine if it is a 'true' prophecy. The author's own words tell us that Fingolfin perished in hand to hand combat with Melkor. It takes much more courage and innate greatness to actually face a god than it does to say that someone is "supposed" to be Melkor at "some" later date.

That's all I'm saying. If the "Last Battle" occurs and Turin destroys Melkor, I will fully concur with your opinion and scream to the far corners of the world, "Turin is the greatest or the great". Until then, Fingolfin gets my vote.

As for Huan, he was one of my favorite characters in the Sil; however he was killed by Carcharoth, the greatest werewolf to ever live but a mere werewolf none the less. That would bring Huan down severl rungs on the WWF power rating system in my book.

Yes Grond i see what you mean even if it did happen (theprophercy) Fingolfin would still give Turin a run for his money.

 

[TulKas Astaldo]

Personally I think Turin was stronger than Hurin... But you never know.

Obviously Tulkas was the mightiest of beings save Illuvatar... But I think he's probably (or rather almost certainly) lose to Osse, who is the strongest swimmer, if they fought in water...

Anyway though, I'd say it's either Fingolfin or Maedhros. We all remember Maedhros fighting into the circle of Balrogs and sending them flying just before Feanor was killed? Then of course having his hand cut off and still owning Orcs real good...

But IMO, Turin could have beaten ANYTHING in fair 1v1 combat... He killed Glaurung, the greatest of Dragons, save perhaps the Winged Dragons such as Ankylagon.

 

[Mormegil]

Turin Rules, he could have taken on Feanor and Fingolfin at the same time and whipped both their asses.
The only person who could kill Turin was himself, with his own sword.

 

[Grond]

Mormegil, we've already been through thisl on another thread.

originally posted by Grond on another thread
Mormegil, I don't look at you and despair, I look at you with despair. Never has there been a more tragic character in all of Middle Earth than Turin Turambar. Quoting Glaurung (my buddy), "Evil have been all thy ways, son of Hurin. Thankless fosterling, outlaw, slayer of thy friend, thief of love, usurper of Nargothrond, captain foolhardy, and deserter of thy kin....." Other than these few shortcomings.... I love you man!...

 

[TulKas Astaldo]

Beren was pretty cool too though... But he wasn't that strong...

Btw, sp on Ankylagon or whatever from before... Anybody know how it's spelt?

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Variag of Khand
I have to say was totally awestruck by Feanor going up against a whole gang of Balrogs. I mean, he is Eldar, they are Maia, he is one they are many.

But I will accept the panels verdict on Fingolfin.

Both were rash. Reading Sil you get the impression that the Elves were only wise by the end of the 3rd age because they'd had 5000 years to think things over!

I also want to say that the sons of Feanor are useless, the most unworthy sons of a great father. What did any of them achieve? You can get over them being proud and willful, but they were gutless. They never went up against Morgoth seriously. They made an oath, and only ever did anything about it once someone else took the initiative.

Yo Feanor would have been a handful in his rage do you think he could beat Fingolfin if he stole the Silmarils 1 0n 1? I do.

 

[Feanor]

Some points of info are up for debate, others aren't where the book clearly states something. HURIN WAS THE MIGHTIEST EVER AMONG MEN. This is not my opinion, its straight from the book.

Turin may have seemed stronger and done more but that is only bc he wasn't tortured by Morgoth for half his life and bc he had quite a sharp sword.
-----------------------------
Of the 3 sons of Finwe it is said that Finarfin was the fairest, Feanor was gifted most in skill and intelligence, Fingolfin had the most skill in battle.

How the elves compared to the men of old in combat is not clearly stated, however Beren did put up a fight against 2 of the sons of Feanor and held his own.

 

[Tyaronumen]

It depends on what you mean by mighty, really...

Fingolfin was clearly the mightiest elf when it came to the exercise of arms... some might argue that Feanor and his little bit with the Balrogs was tough, but it's really a bit ridiculous to too seriously compare the Balrogs with Morgoth Bauglir whose native power was greater than that of any of the other Ainur.

Feanor was clearly the mightiest elf when it came to the fire of his spirit, the will of his being. He was also the greatest of the Eldalie when it came to craftsmanship.

Ingwe is said to have been the most majestic of the elves, while Galadriel is insinuated to have been the most fair among them and the most gifted save Feanor.

 

[Mormegil]

What about Dior?
Didn't he manage to kill 3 of the son's of Feanor before he died. That must have been a pretty mighty thing to do.

Not sure if he counts as an elf though.

 

[Lord Melkor]

It isn`t written that Dior killed three sons of Feanor all by himself but that they perished during the battle. However I assume that Dior, being son of Luthien and Beren, could be more than a match for any son of Faenor besides Maedhros, so he propably killed at least one.

And isn`t it stated in Silmarillion that Feanor was the mightiest of Eldar? Let`s see: he invented writing, was the greatest craftsmen ever, besides maybe Aule, was the most charismatic among Eldar and one with the greatest spirit, not to mention he was a mighty warrior, while not as great as Fingolfin, but propably on par with Maedhros and Fingon in terms of skill.

 

[baraka]

Feanor

It really pisses me off when it is said that Fingolfin is better in a fight than Feanaro. You can´t substitute the passion that Feanaro had in all the things he made or fought.
He had the will to go against the valar, what would Fingolfin had done, would he have gone against the valar and follow Melko or just stay in Valinor and do nothing as Manwe said.

Feanor rules

 

[Tyaronumen]

Re: Feanor

Originally posted by baraka
It really pisses me off when it is said that Fingolfin is better in a fight than Feanaro. You can´t substitute the passion that Feanaro had in all the things he made or fought.
He had the will to go against the valar, what would Fingolfin had done, would he have gone against the valar and follow Melko or just stay in Valinor and do nothing as Manwe said.

Feanor rules

I can hardly understand your admiration for the hubris and assinine behavior of Feanor.

Feanor couldn't even handle fighting Gothmog -- a Balrog (slain by Ecthelion of the Fountain, who was obviously more suited to fighting Balrog's than Feanor), while Fingolfin fought and permanently wounded THE MOST POWERFUL BEING OTHER THAN ILUVATAR.

Your admiration for Feanor (who is best described using words that are inappropriate for public forums) is mind boggling in my humble opinion. I have no sympathy for those who are willful and disobedient in the face of what is right, I am afraid.

 

[Feanor]

Actually, Feanor didn't invent writing but improved upon it so that the actual writing of the High Speech was of Feanor's design but the original was another of the Noldor.

The original intent of my question was mightiest with respect to fighting/combat/arms. In this I believe Tulcas would've taken on Melkor in a straight 1-1.

In a fight, to win, it takes passion AS WELL AS skill. Look at boxing. I don't care how much you want to win, if your skill isn't there you'll go down. So in this context I think Fing had the edge over Feanor. Feanor is kind of like Mike Tyson-- sometimes a bit too crazy! Fing would be more like M.Ali.

 

[Grond]

I just have a problem with Feanor being considered the greatest or the mightiest of anything. He betrayed the Valar by going to war on Melkor. When the Elves of Aqualonde wouldn't give him passage, he killed his own people. He then forsook Fingolfin and Galadriel and their people to the doom of Helcaraxe and the Ice Hills, where many of his own people perished.

Pride, arrogance and conceit were the essence of Feanor and though his soul was the most intense of the Eldar so was his ego. Feanor for Elves and Turin for Man. The two greatest losers of Middle-earth.

 

[Mormegil]

Grond,
Turin was not a loser.
He did his best to fight the evils of Morgoth. It's just not easy when you have a curse upon you. It wasn't Turins fault that his father managed to pi$$ Morgoth off so much.


Feanor on the other hand, now he was a loser, did he think that just be bringing a host of elves to ME, that Morgoth was gonna quake in his boots and give the Silmarils back to him. I think not.
Feanor was a psycho, he believed himself to be invincible, which he quite obviously was not.

 

[Feanor]

>I just have a problem with Feanor being considered the greatest or the mightiest of anything.

I WAS the greatest in skill.

>He betrayed the Valar by going to war on Melkor.

BETRAYED?! They betrayed me and all the free peoples of ME by NOT going to war agst Morgoth, black enemy of the world. It was their fault he was loose and therefore their responsibility. If they were too gutless to go after him the LEAST they could have done was to assist me. Heartless cowards!

And if the Vala weren't foolish enough to let Morgoth out in the first place none of this would have happened.

>When the Elves of Aqualonde wouldn't give him passage, he killed his own people.

Cowardly fools who would betray their own kin! They were brainwashed by some devilry of the Vala. They deserved to die!


>He then forsook Fingolfin and Galadriel and their people to the doom of Helcaraxe and the Ice Hills, where many of his own people perished.

I would have come back and gotten them... right after I obtained the silmarils.


>Pride, arrogance and conceit were the essence of Feanor and though his soul was the most intense of the Eldar so was his ego.
Feanor for Elves and Turin for Man. The two greatest losers of Middle-earth.

Mighty words. Mighty words indeed. And from what? A 'tool of the underworld'? Methinks that when your master placed MY gems upon his crown that he forgot about you and left you in some dark, dusty corner. Indeed your body would have broken itself upon the silmarils had it tried to break them. You cannot bear that thought. It eats away at you.
Is this not the reason for your contempt of me?
Begone back to the dark dungeons from whence you came pit- digger! Were you in my hands I would melt you down in my hot furnaces and recast your body into shackles, which I would then bind unto the hands of thy master thus ensuring you were never again parted from his grip! Hahahahaha!

 

[Tyaronumen]

Originally posted by Feanor
>>He betrayed the Valar by going to war on Melkor.

BETRAYED?! They betrayed me and all the free peoples of ME by NOT going to war agst Morgoth, black enemy of the world. It was their fault he was loose and therefore their responsibility. If they were too gutless to go after him the LEAST they could have done was to assist me. Heartless cowards!

Those who are less in wisdom should heed the words of the wise. Did the Teleri, in their innocence, also "betray" you? Did the followers of Fingolfin "betray" you? Is that why you burned the ships and left them to suffer the terrible passage of the Helcaraxe?

Do not mistake passionate words for true ones.

And if the Vala weren't foolish enough to let Morgoth out in the first place none of this would have happened.

Those who do not understand mercy often debase the merciful.

I would have come back and gotten [Fingolfin, etc.]... right after I obtained the silmarils.

Horse-poo. Your direct words to Maedhros were to the effect of "Let them crawl back to the Valar on their bellies if they will" or something of that sort.

 

[Feanor]

>Feanor on the other hand, now he was a loser,

At least I never slept with my sister.

>did he think that just be bringing a host of elves to ME, that Morgoth was gonna quake in his boots and give the Silmarils back to him.

To attempt a great feat of valour and failing is greater than to have not to tried at all. You Mormegil, I would have thought would understand this. Heed not the crafty words of the dark lord as your father did.

>Feanor was a psycho,

At least I didn't sleep with my sister.

>he believed himself to be invincible, which he quite obviously was not.

The doings and deeds of my lifetime will be known and remembered by all! Thus in song and in tale I live forever!