Why are female 🧌orcs never mentioned?

[Elthir]

Here's my plan for the rest of the day!

 

[Eljorahir]

Why is it, that female orcs are never mentioned? Surely, there must have been some sort of fathering and birthing of baby orcs along the way.

My opinion is that female orcs and baby orcs would humanize them too much, and this is why they were never mentioned. Within the stories, the orcs are irredeemable and the (implied) goal of the "good peoples" of Middle-earth is the total extermination of the orcs and Tolkien never gives us any indication we should feel bad about that. It certainly simplifies things. (It's a good thing we're in the "fantasy" genre, because this idea would be quite horrendous in the real world.)

 

[Ugluk]

My opinion is that female orcs and baby orcs would humanize them too much, and this is why they were never mentioned. Within the stories, the orcs are irredeemable and the (implied) goal of the "good peoples" of Middle-earth is the total extermination of the orcs and Tolkien never gives us any indication we should feel bad about that. It certainly simplifies things. (It's a good thing we're in the "fantasy" genre, because this idea would be quite horrendous in the real world.)

I don't think so. We don't encounter any women amongst the Dunlanders, Southrons, Haradrim, or Corsairs either, and there is no suggestion that they should be exterminated.

It's not clear if Orcs are, of themselves, truly sentient or had any moral sense at all. Tolkien thought much over this in later life, but could not come to any clear conclusion.

It would appear from Tolkien that they reproduced sexually but that all we see are the male warriors Sometimes Tolkien uses insectile language to describe aspects of their behaviour, with imagery of flies or ant or termite colonies. They possibly could be eusocial, like naked mole rats (and ants and termites). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole-rat. A breeding pair at the heart of the colony, and non reproducing workers. In the case of orcs, perhaps the warriors were all male and the females took care of the colony. This is both consistent with Tolkien and makes sense biologically. Tolkien of course knew nothing about the eusociality of mole rats, only discovered in 1981.

 

[Kiredor]

My opinion is that female orcs and baby orcs would humanize them too much, and this is why they were never mentioned. Within the stories, the orcs are irredeemable and the (implied) goal of the "good peoples" of Middle-earth is the total extermination of the orcs and Tolkien never gives us any indication we should feel bad about that. It certainly simplifies things. (It's a good thing we're in the "fantasy" genre, because this idea would be quite horrendous in the real world.)

That’s a very good point, and one I hadn’t considered. Since asking this question, it has been revealed to me that Tolkien, in one of his letters, said that there probably would have been female orcs, but thought of them as inconsequential to the story, therefore omitted them.
However, your humanising them slant, accompanied by the implied irredeemable quality, stands up very well.
Thanks for taking the time to answer this.

I don't think so. We don't encounter any women amongst the Dunlanders, Southrons, Haradrim, or Corsairs either, and there is no suggestion that they should be exterminated.

It's not clear if Orcs are, of themselves, truly sentient or had any moral sense at all. Tolkien thought much over this in later life, but could not come to any clear conclusion.

It would appear from Tolkien that they reproduced sexually but that all we see are the male warriors Sometimes Tolkien uses insectile language to describe aspects of their behaviour, with imagery of flies or ant or termite colonies. They possibly could be eusocial, like naked mole rats (and ants and termites). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole-rat. A breeding pair at the heart of the colony, and non reproducing workers. In the case of orcs, perhaps the warriors were all male and the females took care of the colony. This is both consistent with Tolkien and makes sense biologically. Tolkien of course knew nothing about the eusociality of mole rats, only discovered in 1981.

It has been also pointed out that Tolkien mentioned the orcs in the Silmarillion on this very subject. Seemingly, they multiply in the same way as illuvatar’s children (Elves and men).
Nice info on the mole rats as well. Thanks.

 

[Ugluk]

It has been also pointed out that Tolkien mentioned the orcs in the Silmarillion on this very subject. Seemingly, they multiply in the same way as illuvatar’s children (Elves and men).
Nice info on the mole rats as well. Thanks.

I suppose it's open to interpretation, I always took it to mean more or less mammalian. However it would be taken to mean much greater similarity. In which case the the females could still be servile and underground. I doubt that orc society (such as it was) would rank high on equity! Note that "society" does not imply sentience or moral accountability, only a pattern of behaviour between individuals. Wolves and lions are social in this sense.I suspect this is what Tolkien had in mind. Interestingly, some social animal species, both birds and mammals show patterns of learned behaviour that vary over space, indicative of culture. This would parallel the regional dialects of orc speech that Tolkien alluded to.

Another mammalian alternative to mole rats could be that they resembled hyenas. Males lactate and female genitalia closely resemble that of males. Again, Tolkien would not have been aware of this.

 

[Kiredor]

I suppose it's open to interpretation, I always took it to mean more or less mammalian. However it would be taken to mean much greater similarity. In which case the the females could still be servile and underground. I doubt that orc society (such as it was) would rank high on equity! Note that "society" does not imply sentience or moral accountability, only a pattern of behaviour between individuals. Wolves and lions are social in this sense.I suspect this is what Tolkien had in mind. Interestingly, some social animal species, both birds and mammals show patterns of learned behaviour that vary over space, indicative of culture. This would parallel the regional dialects of orc speech that Tolkien alluded to.

Another mammalian alternative to mole rats could be that they resembled hyenas. Males lactate and female genitalia closely resemble that of males. Again, Tolkien would not have been aware of this.

I wonder what JRR would make of the world today, especially with so much information freely available. Personally, I’m gutted he didn’t pursue the next story of the 4th age; so many unanswered questions still remain…

 

[Ent]

I suppose it's open to interpretation, I always took it to mean more or less mammalian. However it would be taken to mean much greater similarity. In which case the the females could still be servile and underground.

In my case, I don't think it's open to interpretation. Tolkien makes a 'big deal' about his capitalization or non-capitalization of his nouns. (And his son Christopher remarks on his father's diligence in keeping to it.)

In the case of the Orcs, Tolkien writes they "multiply after the manner of the Children of Illuvatar", specifically capitalizing the Children.
So his reference is quite distinct. He has Elves and Men (and possibly the adopted Dwarves) in view.
(Of course, at times I can be a bit of a 'literalist' but...given the evidence with regard to JRR, in this case I need to hold to this opinion myself.)

And he also writes that they 'multiply like flies". So clearly there is a servitude devoted to the production of little Orcs. I agree with you (and wrote above someplace) about the likelihood that they were kept underground, and how hard it would be for us to imagine the lifestyle they must have been subjected to.

There is no depth to which evil will not descend.

 

[CheriptheRipper]

This brings to mind the fact that there were supposed to be female orcs in amazon's rendition of orcs. Not seen em though

 

[ZehnWaters]

even the "Christian" Crusades, whose sole role was to impose the Religion of Opinion on all.

That was not the sole role of the Crusades.