Why did the Watcher go for Frodo?

[Gamil Zirak]

Watcher in the Water

What was the Watcher in the swollen waters of the Sirannon outside the west entrance into Moria? Did it come from the deeps of Moria? Did it swim up through the rivers from the ocean depths?

 

[Anarchist]

Well, there are so many evil monsters in LOTR that noone knows where they come from. Surely it wasn't there the time Dwarves roamed in Moria. Maybe it was another one of Sauron's evil servants or maybe just a monster that crept from his dark sanctuary to a place where it could find food. But, I believe it was a servnt of Sauron, because if you read again the part where the watcher attacks, it is mentioned that it first attacked Frodo (it is said that someone from the group noticed it but didn't say a thing).

 

[pohuist]

Not all monsters are necessarily servants of Sauron (for example Shelob). The Watcher indeed first attacked Frodo but nothing more is ever said about it, and it could have been written so to build suspense. (think about sounds of feet following them, and only much later it is revealed that it was Gollum). Gandalf said that there are dark things in deep places of the world (such as roots of the mountains), some are older and/or not known even to Sauron. I think that the monster is one of them who crept out in search of food.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

What do you suppose the Watcher was eating before it came to its current residence? There isn't any mention of the Dwarves disturbing it. Do you think it came there are stopped up the Sirannon had been dammed by the Watcher or someone else (i.e. Sauron or even Saruman)?

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by shiloh53
What do you suppose the Watcher was eating before it came to its current residence? There isn't any mention of the Dwarves disturbing it. Do you think it came there are stopped up the Sirannon had been dammed by the Watcher or someone else (i.e. Sauron or even Saruman)?

"The Silent watcher got ..." I forgot the name of the dwarf, but you could look it up. The cite is from the chapter on the journey trough Moria when they found the diary beside Balin's tomb. The Watcher did eat at least one dwarf. And, since the Watcher's nature is not known, we do not know how often it had to eat to sustain itself.

 

[Niniel]

But the Watcher didn't live there rfom the beginning, did it? Because when Moria was still flowering, there was no lake, but just a little stream coming out of the mountains, and it only became a lake after the stream was blocked. So where did it live before? And how did it get to the water? And why is it called the 'watcher' Who told it to watch the gates of Moria? Can't it be a servant of Sauron who was put there to guard the gates?

 

[Lantarion]

Did Sauron or the Witch-King take over Moria after the first Dwarves fled? I can't remember, but I think it was Sauron.
Anyway, I think the Watcher was one of Morgoth's ancient servants, that was perhaps a gate keeper in one of his dank dungeons in Angband. It had survived through the Ages, like the Balrog, and probably didn't need much food because it was gene-manipulated (and this is a fantasy tale, remember). It only popped up because Balin et al. went in to reoccupy Khazad-dûm, and it got angry when all the Orcs got in so it started eating Dwarves.
That's my theory, anyway.

 

[Anarchist]

Originally posted by pohuist
Not all monsters are necessarily servants of Sauron (for example Shelob). The Watcher indeed first attacked Frodo but nothing more is ever said about it, and it could have been written so to build suspense. (think about sounds of feet following them, and only much later it is revealed that it was Gollum). Gandalf said that there are dark things in deep places of the world (such as roots of the mountains), some are older and/or not known even to Sauron. I think that the monster is one of them who crept out in search of food.

I agree that not all monsters and creatures are either friends to other species or servnts of Sauron. Indeed some creatures like Shelob, the spiders in Mirkwood (from The Hobbit) etc. serve their own purposes. But I really believe it was Sauron's servant, since it appeared out of nowhere (how could he go all the way there since it was a water creature?), and it attacked Frodo. Maybe there were passages underwater not known from which the creature, in search for food, used to go to the lake. But remember that in older days there was no lake, at least not of that size over there, but just a river. Maybe Sauron turned that place to a dark lake and placed one of his servants there.

 

[pohuist]

I don't think Sauron needed someone to watch the gates to Moria. There were enough Orcs and a Balrog inside. The Watcher wouldn't be able to keep an army (of dwarves or otherwise) from entering. On the other hand Sauron was interested that the Ring be captured by someone not powerful enough to resist him (Orc) or someone enslaved to his spirit (Ringwraith). If the Watcher was one of Morgoth's servants of old (quite possible in my mind), he was not necessarily Sauron's servant (just like Moria's Balrog).

 

[Gamil Zirak]

Some time between Third Age 2845 and 2989 the watcher in the water "appears." I'm guessing on the first date because Gandalf states that he came through Moria and left via the west gate looking for Thráin, and Thráin was captured by the Necromancer and placed in the dungeons of Dol Guldor that year. The last year is pretty accurate because that's the year Balin ventured to Moria. I think that the Watcher was placed there by Saruman. Sauron began to people Moria with his creatures in 2480; as stated above, Gandalf passed through those gates after that and no watcher was to be found.

Edited for the misspelling of Saruman and because Pontifex is a wise guy.

 

[Lantarion]

Uh, who's Sarumon?

 

[Gil-Galad]

I think that Sauron really doesn't have any need of keeping Moria and that monster seems to me very very ancient.It was probably "made" by Morgoth and was somewhere in the depths of Moria ,just like the Balrog.There are so much monsters in Tolkien's works that it's impossible to know their origin.

 

[Galadhwen]

Krakers!

Kracken, The nassty Watcher in the Water. What exactly is he? Where did he come from? What happened to him/it? Does anyone know, or is he just a creature of the Dark without any explanation
Cheers
GW.

 

[Dwarf Lord]

I have looked through the books, and found no explanation except he was there to watch the door.


DWARF LORD

 

[Gamil Zirak]

Check out this thread: http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3865 for some discussions on the Watcher. It hasn't been posted to in a while (about four months), but there's still some stuff in there.

 

[Beorn]

I merged the one in the link, and another one you posted onto this....

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by Gamil Zirak
Some time between Third Age 2845 and 2989 the watcher in the water "appears." I think that the Watcher was placed there by Saruman.

Why would Saruman need to watch the gates of Moria some time b/w 2845 and 2989 TA?

Why Watcher had to be placed by someone? We only decide that it watches the gates because the dwarves call it "Watcher". Maybe it just lives in that pool looking for occasional orc, dwarf and hobbit to go by. The traffic was good in the old days. The pool wasn't there originally, nor was the Watcher there. It has crept in some time after the pool appears. Of course, its not a Balrog, Balrog would not be fetched off so easily. Balrog has two arms and the Watcher has many tentacles. The Watcher was one of ancient creatures, not necessarily a servant of Morgoth, (like Ungoliant never was), probably disturbed by dwarves or Balrog who went off and found (or possibly created) another place for itself to live. Actually, I like disturbed/creeping off because of Balrog theory.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

Since Sauron was doing a little bit of double dealing, he needed to have himself protected from the West. Besides, he had other servants with eyes and ears for him. Why not have someone watch a big strong hold for him.

 

[Galadhwen]

Yea, OK. But how did it get there in the first place? The Water ways that Gandalf and Durin's Bane fought in were much much further underground. Did Kracken fly up the outlet of the water ways, block the stream wait a bit for it to fill up then reside there? On the Saruman theory could Kracken be a perverted creature a bit like the Half Orcs/Uruks Saruman so cleverly mixed to give a guard to stop the orcs leaving Hollin Gate? Did Saruman block the outlet to the stream. Also how deep is the basin, it must be pretty deep for Kracken to be submerged.
Cheers for the link
Galadhwen

 

[Gamil Zirak]

The Watcher could have swam up the water way from the depths of the ocean and then blocked off the stream for it to reside. I don't think it would have had anything to eat if it was in the depths of Moria and I don't see how it could get out of Moria either.