Originally posted by lossenandunewen
here. lets just make this easy
if pj made faramir good -- his importance would not be noticed until mid ROTK. maybe He wanted to introduce faramir earlier so there weren't so many new characters to throw into ROTK and so ROTK wasn't 7 hours long. I think what he did with faramir was fine. in essence, faramir wasn't even that important a player anyways! so he protected a smidgeon of land, and then got sick for the rest of the book ,and then let everyone know how mad denethor was. And maybe he wanted us to know who faramir was before he showed us he marries Eoywn.
geez, you people are so negative. this is PJ vision, not yours.
Spoken like someone who has intensively read the book and understands it ever so well.Originally posted by lossenandunewen
here. lets just make this easy
if pj made faramir good -- his importance would not be noticed until mid ROTK. maybe He wanted to introduce faramir earlier so there weren't so many new characters to throw into ROTK and so ROTK wasn't 7 hours long. I think what he did with faramir was fine. in essence, faramir wasn't even that important a player anyways! so he protected a smidgeon of land, and then got sick for the rest of the book ,and then let everyone know how mad denethor was. And maybe he wanted us to know who faramir was before he showed us he marries Eoywn.
geez, you people are so negative. this is PJ vision, not yours.
I simply disagree here. Every time we see Faramir he seems to loathe what he is doing. Yet he has no real reason not to follow the law of his country- Frodo and Sam are found under very suspicious circumstances, and they are not exactly open and honest in conversation with him. However, the moment Sam tells Faramir about how Boromir died, we get a sense of change of purpose. My opinion is that from that point on Faramir would have let Frodo go regardless of the Nazgul.Originally posted by Thorin
You seem to forget that had it not been for the Nazgul swooping down on everybody, Faramir would have taken Frodo and Sam with the "gift for his father". He was totally under the temptation of the ring. The Nazgul and the following circumstances ended up making Faramir rethinking everything. Hardly a "noble" character showing his true stripes on his own. It was not by Faramir's own will that he ended up letting Sam and Frodo go. In that, Tolkien's Faramir comes off as much more noble. PJ's Faramir was blowing the whole thing.
Boromir was a man of action. This is reiterated time and again both in the books and in the movie. You know this. I know this. It isn't even debatable. No, there is no proof, but there is strong indication. If you like I can come up with both movie and book quotes that will show this.Originally posted by Thorin
There is no proof that Boromir wouldn't have done the same thing under the same circumstances. After his attempt on Frodo, he came to his senses immediately by the circumstances of his failed attack and knock on the noggin and was instantly remorseful. In both these situations, Faramir and Boromir are exactly alike.
Originally posted by lossenandunewen
I'm not denying you people your right to rip apart and spit on someone's creative product. It doesn't hurt me, i'm just stating my above opinion - just like you.
You can't have the first line AND the second; either you mean what you say in the first line or you leave out the second.Originally posted by lossenandunewen
....i didn't mean....a harsh and angry thing.
....you people your right to rip apart and spit on....
i'm sorry, what's that supposed to mean?Originally posted by joxy
You call yourself "Irish Andy"; without any intention of being unkind to those splendid people in Eire I have to say that your posting was a pure "Irishism".
I agree that we need to leave nationality alone. I am but an ignorant colonial myself.Originally posted by lossenandunewen
i have no problem with that
i never once attacked england or english men.. i think it's nice over there, ofcourse not as nice as home could ever be but i'm sure he feels the same way about his home.
I'm mearly defending PJ because he tried to do justice with fotr, and people don't seem to realize how hard it is to direct a movie, especially off a classic.. personally i don't think there is any way he could live up to tolkien, and i think he knew that to.. he tried..
I find this quote of Talimon early in this thread interesting. I think you are right that the character is essentially different in the book in that we know about him and that he is more than just a Captain of Gondor. In the movies we don't know that, and it would be hard to explain quickly. For him to not have taken the ring would have seemed odd in the film.Originally posted by Talimon
I saw TTT last weekend again, and I got a new perspective on Faramir that some might find interesting.
I was in a theatre with folks who had never read the book. I was hearing them talk and react, and it was clear that they didn't have a clue what was going to happen. As such I decided to react to the movie in the same way: treat it liked I'd never seen it or knew anything about it. This may sound a little weird, but for me, connecting with the audience is what makes seeing films in the theatre so different from seeing films at home.
First of all, I enjoyed TTT much more then any of my previous viewings. In fact, the whole wonder of seeing this world reveal itself to me was just fantastic. I was reacting to the film much in the same way I react to most other art: I let the artist dictate his/her own rules. I don't come in imposing my own opinions about what the film should be like. I keep an open mind and follow each films own language. What works in one film doesn't work in another.
In either case, when we came to Faramir I found that I was reacting to him very differently then I had before. In fact, the first thing I realized was that I didn't even know his name until much later on. All I knew about him was what Galadriel told me: he is a captain of Gondor. As such I made the assumption that he was just an ordinary soldier. I didn't expect him to reject the ring. There was no reason he should. He was just another captain. This notion was further strengthened when we got to Osgiliath. We saw Gondor fighting a battle. It only made sense that this captain would take the ring. In fact, when he finally decided to let Frodo go I was surprised with him. I saw it in this light: here is this ordinary captain, leading men into battle. He is in the midst of a great battle at the very moment. He then gets this new revelation regarding the ring, and decides to rise above those around him. He gains foresight. I saw it as an ordinary soldier all of a sudden seeing the bigger picture. More importantly, he is willing to break the rules. This is admirable.
The difference is that in the book, we quickly learn that Faramir is a much greater charachter. He isn't a mere captain. He is a schooled, learned, and wise leader. By the time he actually rejects the ring in the book we have come to admire him. It wouldn't make sense that he accept it. In fact, it is hardly surprising that he rejects it. We know that he should reject it. On the other hand, Faramir in the film doesn't have all this behind him. He is merely a captain. For him to rise above a greed for power is admirable. By the time book-Faramir faces this power, we already know that he has no interest in such things. He is far too noble to accept the ring. We admire his charachter, but his decision is only reasonable given who he is. In the film, his charachter isn't very admirable, but he ultimately decides to make the right choice anyway.
I also have a few very strong hunches regarding RotK. I believe Faramir will have to defend his actions in front of Denethor. This will result in a strong disagreement (similar to that in the book). In this disagreement, we will see our mere captain rise to great heights. In making his arguement we will see the noble charachter that we met from the beginning in the book.
To sum it up, don't view Faramir in the film as such a great and wise charachter. He is a simple captain. The film never suggests that he has great knowledge or wisdom. He is a captain caught in midst of a great battle. It is the fact that rises above his small role in that battle that makes him admirable.
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