Would Frodo's trip to Mt. Doom be easier with Glorfindel?

[Eriol]

An interesting question, accidentally suggested by RD.

What do you think?

 

[Meselyn]

I think it all depends on how he would have handeled the situation when he got gollum of him and found Shelob about to hurt frodo.

 

[Beorn]

First off, that should say accidentally suggested by RD

Anyhow, I think it would have been a bad idea for Glor to go along. Remember the orcs are looking for a powerful elf lord? Glor I think would leave too much destruction in his path.

Additionally, Sam provided the support that Frodo, his friend, needed. Frodo was the leader. If Glor went along, he would be the leader. Glorfindel would not be able to give the support that Frodo needed.

 

[Meselyn]

yeah i forgot about the elf thing.

 

[Eriol]

The "accidental" bit is done.

I think the main problem is that Glorfindel would try to get the Ring. He would not resist it in the long run; if he actually had to use it (as Sam did), then there is no chance he'd manage.

 

[Inderjit S]

No it wasn't a good idea, it is a pretty ridiculous notion IMO, Tolkien made the story as it is for a reason, not for some hunky Elf to come to the rescue of the Hairy Hobbits every 5 minutes, it wouldn't have had the magic of the story if that happened, IMO.

 

[Eriol]

Well, Elrond did not think it was such a ridiculous notion. He would send an Elven Lord if Pippin and Merry did not go.

I think it would have resulted in failure, but I don't think it is ridiculous.

As for the storetelling aspect, what is the difference between a hunky Elf and a wizened wizard? Tolkien separated them quite easily at Moria and Parth Galen. Glorfindel could end up as a reinforcement in Helm's Deep, anyway. He'd probably be welcomed there.

 

[Feanorian]

As for the storetelling aspect, what is the difference between a hunky Elf and a wizened wizard? Tolkien separated them quite easily at Moria and Parth Galen. Glorfindel could end up as a reinforcement in Helm's Deep, anyway. He'd probably be welcomed there.

I think any warrior against Orcs would be welcome there . It's important that only one Elf was on this mission, it shows the waxing of the Elves ecspecially the Noldor. If Glorfindel were to go on the journey or be at Helm's Deep it would not be right, he should be getting ready to leave M-E and go to the bliss of Aman, he should'nt have to put himself in danger, hes already died once(or did he )

 

[Meselyn]

As im reading all these posts there giving me ideas on the subject. I think that the elves have done enough in the war against saruon. They fought against him with the men. I think that elrond thought that he had forseen what Boromir was going to do even before the fellowship left rivendell. I think that he thought Glorfindel might do the same thing somewere down the road. Now im not insulting Glorfindel or anything. Though i don't think if Feanorian is right that he died once and elves have 2 lives he had already used one and had another and with all those orcs going to helm's Deep he couldn't afford to die.

 

[Feanorian]

Though i don't think if Feanorian is right that he died once and elves have 2 lives he had already used one and had another and with all those orcs going to helm's Deep he couldn't afford to die.

Well, if you read of the Fall of Gondolin then you will see what I am talking about. It mentions Glorfindel there and how he fought off a Balrog at Cirith Thoronath (Eagle's Cleft) where he had to sacrafice himself and was pretty much responsible for the company's escape (the company containing Tuor, Earendil, and Idril of course) to join with the people of Elwing at the mouth Sirion, it has been debated repeatedly and I was just trying to get a rise out of some of the other members

 

[Rangerdave]

Just in case no one read my completely off topic post to the original question.

Here is my reply which spawned this thread

Note: Thisis strictly a personal opinion, no real scholarship should be derived from this response.


I believe that having Glorfindel deliver Frodo to Mt Doom would be a tragic mistake, doomed to almost certain failure.

The primary objective of the Fellowship was to destroy the Ring by taking it to the fires of Mt Doom by stealth. I find it hard to accept that an Elvin Prince, even of such power as Glorfindel possessed, could slip into Mordor undetected.

Also, we have no direct evidence that the Elves even knew of Shelob's lair existance, let alone a working knowlidge of how to navigate through the labyrinthine passages. This leaves only three possible means of entering the Black Land.

By passing the Black gate by force
By passing, either undetected or undefeated, through the Morgul Vale
or
by escorting the fellowship through the back door by either circumnavigating the mountains and transversing the wastelands to the far south or far east.

The first two of these alteratives seems to me to be only possible by a large, highly mobile fighting force, which neither the Elves or Gondor maintained the resources to provide. The third choice would require a considerable greater expense of time and a vastly more provisioned means of travel for the Fellowship: thereby negating the only small advantages the Fellowship possessed. Namely Stealth and Speed.

A third reason for not having Glorfindel as a member of the Fellowship is that I doubt very seriously that Elrond considered sending him in the first place. Remember that Sauron waged war on a great deal more territory than is shown in the text. It is only after the defeat of the Dark Lord and the destruction of Barad Dur that Gandalf gives the account of the war in the North.

If the quest to destroy the Ring had failed and Sauron had regained the fullness of his native power, the Elves would be forced to fight their way to the Havens. the Power and Majesty of Glorfindel would have been much better served by holding the last means of escape open for the final flight than marching to war in the south.


Just my thoughts on the matter
feel free to disagree


RD

Boy do I feel the fool

RD

 

[Mr. Underhill]

I thought this very question was debated at the Council of Elrond ... and Gandalf told Elrond something like "even if you choose an Elf-Lord like Glorfindel he cannot storm the Dark Tower ..." etc. The Company was chosen for fellowship, hence the first book's title.

 

[Eriol]

Originally posted by Rangerdave

Boy do I feel the fool

RD

If there is a fool there, RD, then there are two; I was just as foolish as you. Not for the first time...

 

[Beleg]

I say no,

Because as Eriol mentioned I don't think he would have been able to ignore the lure of the Ring for long, speciall if he was in Sam's position.
Although If he had been included instead of Pippin, then perhaps he wouldn't have picked up the Plantir knowing it, and he would be the third elvish [including undecided Peredhel] companion of Aragon's team.
But barring the 'ring lure' Glorifindel would have been a better choice then Pippin.

This leads me to Question, why not send a team of about ten to fifteen elf Lords to Gondor? it would have greatly strengthened the Gondorian army and Denethor, all the proud man he was, would have probably accepted the aid, since his favorite son Boromir alluded to the need of aid, in arms in the Council of Elrond.


Sorry for trying to hack your thread Eriol. But I feel the matter is too trivial and interelated to warrant a wholly seperate thread.

I get the notion that while picking the fellowship [and in the very idea of the fellowship, a somewhat symbolic name to counter the Nine Ringwraiths] Gandalf and Elrond depended more on instinct then anything else.

Actually dying to save the life of many others would be a Noble act. And as for going to Aman, well Glorifindel would be re-born again, so It won't matter much if he died.

 

[Rangerdave]

Another thing that bothers me about sending Glorfindel to Mt Doom.

When Frodo, rejects his mission and declaires the Ring his own, and vows to keep it rather than destroy it. What then?
Would Gollum still be around to bite the finger, or would Glorfindel be forced to do what Elrond should have done an age earlier.

Namely drop kicking the ring-bearer into the pit.

Not a very happy ending



RD

 

[Eriol]

Hmm... I think there were safety issues in the trip to Gondor for that hypothetical team of Elf-Lords. They could not go with the Fellowship or secrecy would be lost; which route would they take then? The Gap of Rohan and Saruman? The High Pass and the Orcs and Giants (do the Hobbit's giants still exist in Tolkien's view at LotR?)? Or the road by the sea, probably just to get at Minas Tirith's ruins?

I don't claim that it is impossible, only that Elrond thought it was not worth the trouble.

On the other hand, they had a task near at hand that was worth the trouble: protecting Bree and perhaps even the Shire. This is a more hard-to-answer question in my opinion. Why was Glorfindel & Co. not protecting Bree, at least? No matter how much men are estranged from elves, I think the Breelanders would welcome that.

So you won't be able to call me Eri anymore, eh, Beleg?

 

[Meselyn]

yeah i think that is a hard question to answer. I think the elves frodo and the ohters met in the beginning of th FOTR were protecting the shire like the rangers were (thank you gandalf and elrond).

 

[Brytta]

From both a story-telling and strategic point of view, Sam is the man!

Besides, I don't think Glorfindel could pull off the orc masquerade as well as Frodo and Sam

 

[Wolfshead]

I think it's impossible to say how the fellowship would have turned out had others been with them. There are so many things that could have happened differently, thus resulting in different routes being taken, or indeed, failure. However, the ones that did go seemed to work out alright, didn't they?

 

[Mr. Underhill]

I believe that perhaps Glorfindel was never necessary ... Perhaps the entire Quest was guided from Aman all along. Didn't Gandalf once say that Bilbo was "meant" to find the Ring? If so, then Frodo was "meant" to inherit the Ring. Maybe this was the Valar's way of tidying up what they had left undone so that the Age of Men could begin. The quest of the Fellowship may have been guided from afar all along. The Istari would have been sent to rally the free peoples so that they could play their part in deciding their own fate.