Who is the strongest and mighty 🧝elf? (as success)

[Turin_Turambar]

According to his deeds and achievements, who do you think is the most powerful and mighty elf in middle earth?

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

Consider this, hope this helps

 

[1stvermont]

You ask this question but do not offer Galadriel on your list? I voted feanor but under severe protest since Galadriel was not on the list.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

You ask this question but do not offer Galadriel on your list? I voted feanor but under severe protest since Galadriel was not on the list.

You're right, but the reason I didn't put Galadriel on the list is because she's a woman.The list includes warriors only.

 

[1stvermont]

You're right, but the reason I didn't put Galadriel on the list is because she's a woman.The list includes warriors only.

But she did fight, she's a warrior woman.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

"But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, or even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlorien maintained and defended against its Enemy".

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

You're right, but the reason I didn't put Galadriel on the list is because she's a woman.The list includes warriors only.

If only for the sake of his blood pressure, I hope Elthir doesn't see this.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

If only for the sake of his blood pressure, I hope Elthir doesn't see this.

Actually, I thought to include Galadriel while opening the poll. But how can a woman be this strong among all men? As a man in real life, I can't feed myself that.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Being unacquainted with your normal diet, I can't comment on that, but your OP question referred to the "most powerful and mighty". I think Galadriel is worthy of consideration -- woman or no.

 

[Elthir]

Galadriel's Mother-name was Nerwen "Man-maiden" and she was "a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth."

JRRT, The Shibboleth of Feanor, The Peoples of Middle-Earth

Tolkien generalizes in Laws And Customs of the Eldar that it was the Elven men who bore arms at need, but in dire straights the Elven women "fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals."

Laws B, The Later Quenta Silmarillion, Morgoth's Egg

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

 

[Elthir]

So you did catch that, I take it 😀

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Hey -- I usually get the yoke!

Er, yolk.

 

[Inkling]

Ok Galadriel should 100% be on this list, even if I do think Fingolfin is still stronger. Just because she is a woman has nothing to do with her fighting abilities, and Tolkien even says the physical capabilities of men and women is much less different then that of humans. Galadriel was one of the very few to even just survive the Silmarillion, and did so much more in her life. She founded Eregion, was able to create a Melian-reminiscent girdle about Lothlorien. She was also much wiser than many of the men portrayed in the Silmarillion, which makes her more mighty (in my opinion) because she knew when and how to use her power. Reading the way Tolkien describes Galadriel, I personally think that she is more powerful than any of the third generations of elves (meaning the sons of Feanor or Fingolfin and the like) and could contend with the others. Personally, I think Fingolfin will always be the strongest, but Galadriel would be in my top three most powerful elves.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

She was also much wiser than many of the men portrayed in the Silmarillion, which makes her more mighty (in my opinion) because she knew when and how to use her power.

Excellent observation, Inkling!

Oh, BTW -- I see you haven't made use of your birthday present yet. 😀

 

[Elthir]

Just to mention it:

Nerwende Artanis Galadriel is said to have fought "heroically/fiercely" at Swanhaven.

I prefer Galadriel/Finrod/Finarfinians to have arrived too late to take any part in the Kinslaying
(as I argue is the earlier notion), but there it is -- in one version she fights at Swanhaven as part of the Rebellion (defending the Teleri), in another version she's removed from the Rebellion (which contradicts text published by Tolkien himself), but fights (again defending the Teleri), being in Swanhaven when the Feanoreans arrive.

If I could ask Tolkien 1,000 questions, one would be: did you imagine that Galadriel took life at Swanhaven . . . or did she fight/defend and refrain from killing?

Another would be, if you don't want to answer this, why not stick to the earlier scenario

Another might be, can I ask more than 1,000 . . . please?

 

[1stvermont]

Was Galadriel the Most Powerful elf Ever?

"Lady Galadriel....was of the Noldor and remembered the day before days in Valinor, and she was the mightiest and fairest of all the elves that remained in middle-earth."
-The Silmarillion Second Edition Houghton Mifflin Company Boston NY 2001

At the time of the war of the ring, there remained multiple great elf lord's in Middle-earth. The keeper of the ring of Sapphire, master Elrond Lord of Rivendell, the great elf warrior captain Glorfindel [who killed a balrog in the first age], Cirdan the Shipwright Lord of the Grey Havens, and the wise lord Celeborn were all surviving Lords of the elves. But it was the Lady Galadriel who was the most powerful elf in the third age. Elrond was part Maiar, and Glorfindel had become equal to one, yet not even they could reach the power of Galadriel. “Here in Rivendell live still some of his chief foes, the elven –wise, Lords of the Eldar from beyond the sea.” Gandalf Glorfindel “one of the mighty of the first born. He is an elf Lord of a house of Princes” Gandalf

"Long years he [Glorfindel] remained in Valinor, in reunion with the Eldar who had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar. To these, he had now become almost an equal, for though he was an incarnate (to whom a bodily form not made or chosen by himself was necessary) his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice".
-The Peoples of Middle-Earth The Last Writings Glorfindel HarperCollins Publishers 2015

Jonathan Witt and Jay Richards in The Hobbit Party write "the wisest, fairest, and most powerful of the elves of Middle-earth, the Lady Galadriel." In letters 144, Tolkien wrote, "Galadriel...is the last remaining of the great among the high elves, and "awoke" in Eldomar beyond the sea." In "flotsam and jetsam" Aragorn named Galadrial as one of the three that would be safe left alone with the maiar Saruman. In letters 246, Tolkien suggested Galadriel would have been able to face Sauron alone if she had his ring. If she had the ring, we are told in Lothlorien; she would become "dreadful as the storm and the lightning stronger than the foundations of the earth."

Galadriel had the authority and wisdom to gather the white council made of leading elves and wizards. In Tolkien's World from A to Z, Robert Foster writes the "council of the wise formed at the summons of Galadriel to plan the strategy to be used against Sauron." It was also Galadriel who desired Gandalf to lead it, not Saruman.

She was the most powerful elf in the third age and the most powerful free peoples individual in the second age. In Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings, Galadriel, Cirdan the Shipwright, and Gil-Galad are named the three most powerful Noldor elves of the second age. But Sauron reorganized her as the most powerful of all the free peoples and his main threat. In Unfinished Tales "concerning Galadriel and Celeborn," we read Sauron "perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle."

She was the most powerful elf in the third age, and in the second age, she was the most powerful of all the free peoples. It was not the two who gave battle in hand-to-hand combat able to kill Sauron such as the last great High King of the Noldor Gil-Galad, nor Elendil, Isildur's father Aragorn's ancestor and first high king of both Arnor and Gondor. The great king of men Isildur realized his mistake by keeping the ring and its immense power in Gladden Fields' battle saying, "it [the ring] needs one greater than I... it should go to the keepers of the three." He does not say the ring should have gone to Galadriel but that the keepers of the ring were more powerful than he was, she among them.

An example of just how powerful Galadriel was comes from the account of Eorl, who rode with 7,300 riders south to help save Gondor. During their ride, Galadriel pushed back the power of nearby Dol Guldor, concealed the entire army, and regenerated its men while moving them at speeds they could not have done themselves. It is no wonder the later descendants of Eorl [Rohan] and Gondor would learn to fear the power of the Lady of the golden wood as Eomer had.

"Eorl turned away westward for fear of the dark shadow, and cloud that flowed out from it...to their dismay the mist [from Dol Guldur] passed over the river and flowed over the land before them… as they drew nearer they saw the white mist was driving back the gloom's of Dol Guldur, under its [Galadriels] canopy.... left and right were guarded as it were by white walls of secrecy, "the lady of the golden wood is on our side," said Borondir... then Felarof sprang forward, and all the host behind followed like a great wind, but in strange silence, as if their hooves did not beat upon the ground, so they rode on fresh and eager as on the morning of their departure of their setting out... suddenly the mist was gone... they came there at speed beyond hope."
-Unfinished Tales Cirion and Eorl of Numenor and Middle-Earth the Istari Ballantine Books NY 1988

Galadriel's Power- Great Teachers

"Now the Noldor took delight in all lore and crafts, and Aule and his folk came often among them. Yet such skill had Iluvatar granted to them that in many matters.....they soon surpassed their teachers....and all the Valar were enriched by their labors."
-Morgoth's Ring Annals of Ammon Section 4 Harpercollins Publishers 1993

Galadriel was born in Valinor during the years of the trees before the first age began. The only daughter of Finarfin, high king of the Noldor in Valinor and niece of Feanor, who was also a high king of the Noldor. Unfinished Tales describes Galadriel as "being brilliant in mind she had early observed all of what she was capable of the teachings which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar." In Valinor, the Noldor elves "thirst for more knowledge, and in many things surpassed their teachers," the Valar. Thus some of the elves like Galadriel advanced past the Valar in various crafts.

The Valar Yavanna taught Lady Galadriel, and Aule [creator of dwarves]. Yavanna would give as a gift to Galadriel the elf stone. Later, when Galadriel lived in Middle-earth, she became close friends with Melian the Maia learning from her. As we read in The Later Silmarillion the war of the Jewels, "Galadriel....remained long in Doriath....there learned great lore and wisdom concerning Middle-earth." And "Galadriel remained long with Melian, for there was much love between them." Melian also learned from Galadriel, such as the events that took place in Aman.

Galadriel later lived for a time in the place of lore in Rivendell with master Elrond, and she was also a member of the council of the wise, having another source of excellent knowledge of the events in Middle-earth. Further, Elves were not idle but grew in wisdom over time. In Morgoth's Ring Laws and Customs of the Eldar says, "Indeed in their earlier days death came more readily; for their bodies were the less different from the bodies of men, and the command of their spirits over their bodies less complete." We read in Unfinished Tales, "the silvan elves hid themselves in woodland beyond the misty mountains... they... increased in wisdom." And in the Annals of Ammon section 5, "their [elves] valor and endurance grew greater with hardship...led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Inglor and Galadriel the valiant and fair." And so it was with Galadriel who would not reach her summit of wisdom, till the third age as we read again in Unfinished Tales "It was not until two long ages more had passed.... that her wisdom was full grown."

"Elves went and lived for ages, and grew fairer and wiser and more learned and invented their magic and their cunning craft."
-The Hobbit Flies and Spiders Houghton Mifflin Company Boston 1997

Natural Gifts

"Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor....from her earliest years she had a marvelous gift of insight into the minds of others."
-Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth the Istari Ballantine Books NY 1988

"In dire straits or desperate defense, the nissi [elf woman] fought valiantly and there was less difference in strength and speed between elf men and elven women."
-Morgoth's Ring Laws and Customs Among the Eldar Harpercollins Publishers 1993

We read in Unfinished Tales that Galadriel "grew tall beyond measure even of the woman of the Noldor she was strong in body, mind, and will." Physically and in battle, she was powerful. She was known as Nerwen or "man maiden." In the Eldar days, she "fought fiercely against Fenor in defense of her Mother's kin," and she was one of the Noldor leaders who led the house of Fingolfin to Middle-earth over the dangerous mountain pass in the flight of Noldor.

She had an unmatched ability of insight. She reads the hearts and minds of the fellowship while they are in Lorien. She can even read Sauron's mind while she prevents him from seeing hers. She tells Frodo, "I perceive the dark lord and know his mind or all of his mind that concerns the elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thoughts. But still, the door is closed." Even the Maiar Sauruman by use of the Palantir "was ensnared by that dark spirit mightier than he" while Galadriel could resist Sauron and stop him from influencing and seeing into her mind.

Nenya Elven Ring of Power

Not only did Galadriel increase in knowledge in power as any elf would over time, but in the third age, she was the holder of the elf ring of adamant Nenya, increasing her power significantly. So much attention is given to the power of the one ring. Still, in letters, 131 Tolkien tells us the three elven rings were also very powerful. Their "chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay. But they also enhanced the natural powers of a possessor...The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings." Nenya was not as powerful as the one ring, of course, but the elven rings were the most powerful of all of the other rings made. The elven rings all enhanced the power of the holder's natural abilities and gifted them the power of slowing decay. In this way, we see how Lorien and only Lorien, the land was without stain and unaffected by decay because of Galadriel and her ring's incredible power. These three great rings were the culmination of ages of increased knowledge and wisdom in crafts [that surpassed the Valar] in making the rings of power.

"Three Rings of the Elves, wielded by secret guardians, are operative in preserving the memory of the beauty of old, maintaining enchanted enclaves of peace where Time seems to stand still and decay is restrained, a semblance of the bliss of the True West."
-J.R.R Tolkien Letters 131

We get a glimpse of the power of her ring when Frodo sees Galadriel use it; Frodo saw "a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful." The ringwraiths are described as Sauron's most powerful servants. They carry the nine rings of men, which have given them strength but to a lesser extent than the elf rings of power. The nine ringwraiths without the rings were just petty kings of men, but with the ring are terribly and powerful. If the nine rings of men can cause such a change in them, then how much more so the elven ring of Galadriel? And since Galadriel tells us "the rings have power according to the measure of each possessor," and since she was more powerful then they to begin with, and her ring more potent than there's, her power is indeed very significant. In fact because of her ring's power, the witch King with his ring, would not even enter Lorein yet he faced down Gandalf the White at Minas Tirith's gates. In the Hunt for the Ring in Unfinished Tales, we read "the power of the white ring [Galadriel's] he [witch king] would not defy, nor enter yet, into Lorien." Yet Gandalf admitted he feared the Nine, but Galadriel did not.

"The elf wise Lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the blessed realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the seen and unseen they have great power."
-Gandalf Lord of the Rings Many Meetings Houghton Mifflin Company Boston NY 2012

Guardian of The Golden Wood and Craftsmanship

"Throughout the second and third ages Lorien remained safe from Sauron, For Galadriel's power was such that she knew his mind but hers was closed to him, and she could protect Lorien from assault by any power less than Sauron himself."
-Robert Foster the Complete Guide to Middle Earth Ballantine Books NY 1978

Galadriel's wisdom and power kept Lorien safe from Sauron and free from stain. In the elven realm, she maintains the original world of Middle-earth before the fall. Due to her power, Lorien was outside of Morgoth's ring. Her power was such that Frodo could "feel" the power of Galadriel when he entered Lorien. Sam said he felt like he was in a song.

Galadriel Throwing down the walls of Dol Guldur
During the war of the ring, after repulsing three attacks on Lorien [due to Galadriel's power], the elves of Lorien crossed the Anduin on boats, and an alliance with the elves of Mirkwood under Thranduil assaulted Dol Guldur and captured it. Galadriel then threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and cleansed the forest.

But she did not hide in the golden wood. She helped force Sauron out of Dol Guldur with the white council, sent Gwaihir to rescue Gandalf, gave him a new staff and white robes, coronating him as Gandalf the White. She helped defend Lorien against three assaults from Dol Guldur during the war of the ring, and after repulsing the attacks, an elven alliance with Thranduil of Mirkwood marched to Dol Guldur where Galadriel tore down its walls. Only one power in Middle-earth could overcome Galadriel. Not Saruman, not the Balrog, but Sauron alone.

"Three times Lorien had been assailed….the power that dwelt there [Galadriel] was to great for any to overcome unless Sauron had come there himself….they took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bear its pits."
Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings Houghton Mifflin Company Boston NY 2012

As a great craftsman who surpassed the Valar and continued to improve, she created "the mirror of Galadriel" to see "things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be" to further her knowledge of Middle-earth and counter moves by Sauron. She might have seen future events due to this creation [or her insight] like Aragorn commanding the army of the dead, or when she saw that Legolas would go into the west.

She also created the "Phial of Galadriel" with light from Earendil's star, which is given as a gift to Frodo. She made lembas bread as Melian had taught her, and given as a gift to the fellowship without which Frodo and Sam would have never accomplished their mission. Her intercessory powers saved Sam and Frodo multiple times in Mordor, without which they would never have accomplished their mission. Due to her wisdom, she united the elves and dwarves of Eriador, and they became much more robust in the second age in resisting Sauron.

But even if this is all so, that she was the most powerful elf in the third age, the most powerful of the free people in the second age, and continued to gain wisdom and power over time. What about Feanor in the Eldar days? Was he not more powerful than Galadriel was in the third? Tolkien describes these two as the most potent elves that ever existed but did not put one above the other.

"Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe, though she was wiser than he, and her wisdom increased with the long years."
-Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth and the Later Writings People of Middle Earth the Shibboleth of Feanor Ballantine Books NY 1988

"Strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar....these two kinsfolk [Galadriel and Fenor], the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor."
-Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth Ballantine Books NY 1988

But I think we can indirectly conclude that Galadriel was the most powerful ever. One thing to consider is why Feanor was not around in the third age as Galadriel was. Feanor's anger drove him to foolish actions that wound up getting him killed. I don't see Galadriel making a similar mistake.

Tolkien said in Unfinished Tales that Galadriel and Feanor were the most powerful elves in the first age. Tolkien also says that elves [individually] and in particular Galadriel grow more potent over time. Thus, if they were equal in the first age and Feanor died- but Galadriel continued to grow in wisdom and power, she would be the most powerful by the third age as a keeper of a great ring of power elf ever to live. If I am correct, then Galadriel was more often than any other being, the most powerful free peoples person living in Middle-earth. So over the long haul, she should be considered Sauron's enemy number one.
Some might think her less powerful since she was banned with the elves who left Aman. But Sauron did far worse and yet was very powerful. Besides, Tolkien said like Mary [the mother of Jesus], she was without stain.

"Galadriel was 'unstained': she had committed no evil deeds. She was an enemy of Fëanor. She did not reach Middle-earth with the other Noldor, but independently. Her reasons for desiring to go to Middle-earth were legitimate, and she would have been permitted to depart, but for the misfortune that before she set out the revolt of Fëanor broke out, and she became involved in the desperate measures of Manwe, and the ban on all emigration."
-J.R.R Tolkien letters 353

 

[Elthir]

The Unstained Galadriel idea is very late -- and Tolkien seems to have forgotten what he'd already published about Galadriel in RGEO -- that she was a leader in the Rebellion and specially banned for that role -- and in which scenario, Tolkien, once again thinking about the Virgin Mary (in another letter which dates closer to RGEO), called Galadriel a penitent.

"These two kinsfolk [Feanor, Galadriel], the greatest of the Eldar in Valinor, were unfriends for ever." but don't forget the footnote here: "who together with the greatest of all the Eldar, Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Elu Thingol, are the chief matter of the legends and histories of the Elves."

And then again: "For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike: of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him."

Anyway, stuff happens in battles/war -- which I'm guessing is Ecthelion's intended focus when asking for examples, given his statements above. Pippin kills a troll for example.

Sometimes Roger Federer loses to a low ranked player who might never win a single ATP title.
Bigger picture, one day that player can tell his grandkids that he somehow once beat the great Federer (maybe Roger has an off day, other player plays the match of his life, add a little luck).

And yes, tennis is exactly like a battle

 

[Inkling]

Excellent observation, Inkling!

Oh, BTW -- I see you haven't made use of your birthday present yet. 😀

Thank you!

side note: what is and how do I use the birthday present?
sorry if this is slightly off topic, Idk where to ask that question

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

what is and how do I use the birthday present?

What? You never looked at the Birthday thread?! I thought it was the first thing everyone checked! 😲

I feel deflated. 😓