TheManInTheMoon
Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2021
- Messages
- 128
"There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies "embedded in the traditions"; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings." - Christopher Tolkien
Absolutely nothing about Galadriel makes any sense.
Galadriel departed Valinor because "she wished for freedom" (NoME) and "she yearned to see the wide untrodden lands and to rule there a realm maybe at her own will." (Later Quenta) and because "she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own" (Shibboleth of Feanor) and because her kinship with the Sindar influenced her decision (Shibboleth), in other word she wanted to save uncle Thingol and the rest of her mother's kin from Morgoth.
But what does she do when she gets to Middle-earth? She goes to Sindar and becomes the handmaid of their Queen Melian and that's it. She never establishes any realms in First Age. She completely started acting out-of-character. She neither had any big adventure for 400+ years nor did she establish any realms in the entire FA, not even a village or a stronghold.
Her gender had nothing to do with this. We are shown in Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn that Galadriel was the sole ruler of Lorien for many years. Celeborn was not with her when she retreated to Lorien in that early version. The Noldor and Sindar and Nandor of Lorien delightfully accepted her as their ruling lady. Not to mention that in the same version she and Celeborn founded the Noldorin realm of Eregion. The Noldor followed *her* into Eregion, not Celeborn the Sinda really.
Moving past this, let's see another thing that absolutely doesn't make any sense about Galadriel. There are THOUSANDS of mentions of Galadriel being superbadass: "A sister they had, Galadriel, the fairest lady of the House of Finwe, and the most valiant" (Morgoth's Ring, Later Quenta, Princes of Eldalie) "Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among contending Princes" (LQ, Flight of the noldor) "Therefore led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Inglor and Galadriel the valiant and fair..." (Ibid) "she was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." (Tolkien Letters) "She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage." (NoME) "Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth." "She was proud, strong, and selfwilled," "she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin" (PoME, Shibboleth of Feanor) "In Eregion [Sauron] perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle" (UT, CG&C) "he [Sauron] sees that he has met his match" (NoME, CG&C)
Now what does the most valiant woman do for the Siege of Angband and Bragollach and Nirnaeth? Absolutely nothing. She hides under the skirts of Melian. She doesn't even help Beleg and Mablung in protecting the borders of Doriath! So much for being equally as valiant as the princes of the Noldor. Even Gwindor was more useful and brave than her.
Let's skip to the ending of First Age and the start of the Second Age.
Galadriel proudly rejects Eonwe "for love of Celeborn" (NoME) and because she believes they have done nothing wrong; "what wrong did the Golden House of Finarfin do..." (UT, Elessar draft) and "for all who had fought against [Morgoth]" (Shibboleth)
Whoa dude what a great Middle-earth benevolent. Subjecting herself to the Doom of Mandos for sake of her pride for herself and her family and all other suffered people of Middle-earth.
Sounds great, right? But her actions in the following years sounds very inconsistent.
Finally, Galadriel got a realm of her own to rule, well, at least as something of a co-ruler with her husband: "In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women." (LotR Appendix B) "Gil-galad's people were mainly Noldorin; though in the Second Age the Elves of Harlindon were mainly Sindarin, and the region was a fief under the rule of Celeborn." (PoME, Of Dwarves and Men)
Then Galadriel persuades Celeborn to abandon their realm and cross the Mountains of the Ered Luin. In a brief note in Read Goes Ever On, published by Tolkien himself, Galadriel crosses the mountains and goes to Eregion, but in CG&C she goes to Lake Evendim for some adventure and becomes the Lady of all of the Elves in Eriador and eventually she moves out to Eregion. Whether Tolkien had abandoned the idea that Galadriel lived for a time at Evendim is unclear. Perhaps he was merely highlighting the 'real' important events in that very brief summary in RGEO. Perhaps not. Anyway,
Now let's see why she went to Eregion? "[Celebrimbor] was a great silver-smith, and went to Eregion attracted by the rumours of the marvellous metal found in Moria, Moria-silver, to which he gave the name mithril." (POME, Of Dwarves and Men) " some of the Noldor went to Eregion ... This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria." (Appendix B) Galadriel was a half Teler and the Teleri were renowned for their love and skill in silver material (Unfinished Tales) "Galadriel became aware that Sauron again, as in the ancient days of the captivity of Melkor, had been left behind. ... it seemed to proceed from a source further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains. Celeborn and Galadriel therefore went eastwards ... she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from "the residue of evil" that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs. Moreover Galadriel was a Noldo, and she had a natural sympathy with their minds and their passionate love of crafts of hand, a sympathy much greater than that found among many of the Eldar: the Dwarves were "the Children of Aulë," and Galadriel, like others of the Noldor, had been a pupil of Aulë and Yavanna in Valinor." (UT, CG&C)
As long as we assume Galadriel was the founder of Eregion it is consistent with her character. But the thing is, it is generally presumed in the Tolkien fandom that Celebrimbor was the first and last and only ruler of Eregion, as opposed to the idea that Celebrimbor took over Eregion after the Coup.
In Appendix B revised edition published in 1966, Tolkien (or rather say the in-universe author) states that Celebrimbor was the Lord of Eregion, but below this it is stated "Eregion founded by the Noldor". Which Noldo(r)? The in-universe author states that "the recordings are few" about SA and there isn't much clarity and details. It is crystal clear that the in-universe author has no idea that Galadriel and Celeborn were ever present in Eregion, as we see their names aren't mentioned in the Fall of Eregion. In a writing in Parma from 1965 or earlier it is stated "the settlement at Eregion under Celebrimbor was also very important", but in a note in Nature of Middle-earth, dated to August of 1965, Tolkien states Galadriel and Celeborn "took part in establishing Eregion" and directs us to Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn where they "founded Eregion". In a note against a passage about Celebrimbor of Gondolin who followed Galadriel into Eregion it is stated 'make him a descendant of Feanor', but it is not stated 'make Galadriel the follower of Celebrimbor'. Moreover, the fact that Tolkien wrote Celebrimbor was a Sinda/Teler in 1968/1969 writings implies that he couldn't be the founder of Eregion, because "Eregion was founded by the Noldor". Nonetheless, on Discord people kept saying to me they prefer Galadriel as only a noble of Eregion, not THE Lady of Eregion.
If that's so, then Galadriel broke character again. Some younger guy from the house of "the Dispossessed shall they be forever" took over the rightful leadership of "the greatest of the Noldor except Feanor maybe" even when Annatar still hadn't come around to persuade Celebrimbor (and most of Eregion) to revolt against his "great friend" and in some versions *great crush*.
After the Fall of Fingolfin, majority of the Noldor became the followers of Finrod -> Orodreth -> Gil-Galad, and Galadriel. It is said many people followed her into Eriador. After all she was the eldest of the House of Finwe now, and also a great Telerin Princess among the Sindar/the-Teleri-who-didn't-cross-the-Sea-in-the-Great-Journey, and now the greatest Elf alive. She had enough amount of followers to establish a realm of her own near Moria and Eregion and form great friendship and power with the Dwarves and others and oppose the Shadow in the East. In another word, she could keep in-character. But nope, she didn't. Instead she went to Eregion and as most fans assume she was lesser in title and rank than Celebrimbor in Eregion. So much for Galadriel being "eager to be gone" from Valinor to "rule a realm of her own".
Galadriel did it again in the year 1697 of the Second Age! She broke character again: "Galadriel and Celeborn, and their followers, who after the destruction of Eregion passed through Moria" "Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither [to Lorien] after the downfall of Eregion." (Parma) "...Oropher had withdrawn northward beyond the confluence of the Gladden and Anduin: to be free from the power and encroachments of the Dwarves of Moria, and still more, after the fall of Eregion, from the “domination” of Celeborn and Galadriel. They had passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien. Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age; and in the Third Age, when the Shadow of Sauron’s recovery arose, they dwelt there again for a long time." (the note about Oropher, included in Nature of Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales)
As you can see, she led her CONSIDERABLE host of the survivors of Eregion into Lorien. You know, into somebody else's land. Into the realm of someone who is pretty much a random hobo unintelligent Elf, especially compared to her. Logically she should've led them into another land to establish a realm of HER OWN. But she didn't. Merely gaining a 'domination' in somebody else's land does not match up with her character. She desires far more than that. The land wasn't hers, she merely had a great influence in there, probably more than the King himself tho!
I have posted something similar about 'why Galadriel was not establishing her own realm or why she didn't return to her own realm Harlindon' on a Tolkien forum before. And the answers I got were "she had grown up past her I wanna rule phase". No she didn't. You know what happened to her after the hell she went through in the War of the Elves and Sauron? She became worse. Far worse. Now she was lusting after the Great Ring of Power and now she insanely desired to own the entire Middle-earth and 'save the world' and herself from the Curse of Mandos.
“I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands,” (FotR, Mirror of Galadriel, Galadriel speech to Frodo) "It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it," (Shibboleth)
Skipping to the ending years of Second Age... Where was Galadriel in the War of the Last Alliance? Where was the Elf who 'preached' to people that the Valar have abandoned us again and we need to save ourselves by our own efforts? Where was the Elf whose fate was bound to the result of this war? Where was the Elf who desired to turn Middle-earth into Valinor v2? Where was the great pupil of Aulë when they were forging weapons at Imladris? Where was the great pupil of Yavanna and Melian when the healers and supply providers needed her in the war? Where was the most valiant and strongest woman? Where was the greatest of the Noldor? Where was the Elf who was called "the equal ... of Feanor"? Where was the Elf that Sauron feared so much and thought of her as his match and greatest adversary? Where was the angry gal who wanted to avenge her brother Finrod? Where was the Elf who took upon herself that even if the Valar forgive her she would yet again reject them, because she was telling herself I'm so freaking prideful and it is my duty to fight Sauron? Where was the great benevolent of Middle-earth? :')
In Third Age when they offered her the title of the Queen she rejected it. "they [Galadriel and Celeborn] took no title of King or Queen; for they said that they were only guardians of this small but fair realm, the last eastward outpost of the Elves." Finally, after so long, she got a realm of her own (again), but then she proceeded to declare 'nah I'm just a guardian of this realm, not the Queen.' It's not really clearly stated at all why she did that.
The worst character of all time. If Tolkien had so much trouble to finish her character then Tolkien should've just stayed with the version where she abandoned Nargothrond and Doriath and crossed the mountains of Ered Luin and Misty Mountains in early FA and became the wife of Celeborn the Nandorin Prince of Lorien. He should have just finished that version which was very easier to finish. The making of Celeborn into the Sindarin Prince of Doriath and the making of Galadriel into 'I was everywhere but I barely did anything in-character' was a great mistake. A great ambitious retcon, but a completely inconsistent one that was never fleshed out into a logical tale. Therefore, a great mistake.
Absolutely nothing about Galadriel makes any sense.
Galadriel departed Valinor because "she wished for freedom" (NoME) and "she yearned to see the wide untrodden lands and to rule there a realm maybe at her own will." (Later Quenta) and because "she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own" (Shibboleth of Feanor) and because her kinship with the Sindar influenced her decision (Shibboleth), in other word she wanted to save uncle Thingol and the rest of her mother's kin from Morgoth.
But what does she do when she gets to Middle-earth? She goes to Sindar and becomes the handmaid of their Queen Melian and that's it. She never establishes any realms in First Age. She completely started acting out-of-character. She neither had any big adventure for 400+ years nor did she establish any realms in the entire FA, not even a village or a stronghold.
Her gender had nothing to do with this. We are shown in Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn that Galadriel was the sole ruler of Lorien for many years. Celeborn was not with her when she retreated to Lorien in that early version. The Noldor and Sindar and Nandor of Lorien delightfully accepted her as their ruling lady. Not to mention that in the same version she and Celeborn founded the Noldorin realm of Eregion. The Noldor followed *her* into Eregion, not Celeborn the Sinda really.
Moving past this, let's see another thing that absolutely doesn't make any sense about Galadriel. There are THOUSANDS of mentions of Galadriel being superbadass: "A sister they had, Galadriel, the fairest lady of the House of Finwe, and the most valiant" (Morgoth's Ring, Later Quenta, Princes of Eldalie) "Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among contending Princes" (LQ, Flight of the noldor) "Therefore led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Inglor and Galadriel the valiant and fair..." (Ibid) "she was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." (Tolkien Letters) "She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage." (NoME) "Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth." "She was proud, strong, and selfwilled," "she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin" (PoME, Shibboleth of Feanor) "In Eregion [Sauron] perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle" (UT, CG&C) "he [Sauron] sees that he has met his match" (NoME, CG&C)
Now what does the most valiant woman do for the Siege of Angband and Bragollach and Nirnaeth? Absolutely nothing. She hides under the skirts of Melian. She doesn't even help Beleg and Mablung in protecting the borders of Doriath! So much for being equally as valiant as the princes of the Noldor. Even Gwindor was more useful and brave than her.
Let's skip to the ending of First Age and the start of the Second Age.
Galadriel proudly rejects Eonwe "for love of Celeborn" (NoME) and because she believes they have done nothing wrong; "what wrong did the Golden House of Finarfin do..." (UT, Elessar draft) and "for all who had fought against [Morgoth]" (Shibboleth)
Whoa dude what a great Middle-earth benevolent. Subjecting herself to the Doom of Mandos for sake of her pride for herself and her family and all other suffered people of Middle-earth.
Sounds great, right? But her actions in the following years sounds very inconsistent.
Finally, Galadriel got a realm of her own to rule, well, at least as something of a co-ruler with her husband: "In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women." (LotR Appendix B) "Gil-galad's people were mainly Noldorin; though in the Second Age the Elves of Harlindon were mainly Sindarin, and the region was a fief under the rule of Celeborn." (PoME, Of Dwarves and Men)
Then Galadriel persuades Celeborn to abandon their realm and cross the Mountains of the Ered Luin. In a brief note in Read Goes Ever On, published by Tolkien himself, Galadriel crosses the mountains and goes to Eregion, but in CG&C she goes to Lake Evendim for some adventure and becomes the Lady of all of the Elves in Eriador and eventually she moves out to Eregion. Whether Tolkien had abandoned the idea that Galadriel lived for a time at Evendim is unclear. Perhaps he was merely highlighting the 'real' important events in that very brief summary in RGEO. Perhaps not. Anyway,
Now let's see why she went to Eregion? "[Celebrimbor] was a great silver-smith, and went to Eregion attracted by the rumours of the marvellous metal found in Moria, Moria-silver, to which he gave the name mithril." (POME, Of Dwarves and Men) " some of the Noldor went to Eregion ... This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria." (Appendix B) Galadriel was a half Teler and the Teleri were renowned for their love and skill in silver material (Unfinished Tales) "Galadriel became aware that Sauron again, as in the ancient days of the captivity of Melkor, had been left behind. ... it seemed to proceed from a source further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains. Celeborn and Galadriel therefore went eastwards ... she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from "the residue of evil" that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs. Moreover Galadriel was a Noldo, and she had a natural sympathy with their minds and their passionate love of crafts of hand, a sympathy much greater than that found among many of the Eldar: the Dwarves were "the Children of Aulë," and Galadriel, like others of the Noldor, had been a pupil of Aulë and Yavanna in Valinor." (UT, CG&C)
As long as we assume Galadriel was the founder of Eregion it is consistent with her character. But the thing is, it is generally presumed in the Tolkien fandom that Celebrimbor was the first and last and only ruler of Eregion, as opposed to the idea that Celebrimbor took over Eregion after the Coup.
In Appendix B revised edition published in 1966, Tolkien (or rather say the in-universe author) states that Celebrimbor was the Lord of Eregion, but below this it is stated "Eregion founded by the Noldor". Which Noldo(r)? The in-universe author states that "the recordings are few" about SA and there isn't much clarity and details. It is crystal clear that the in-universe author has no idea that Galadriel and Celeborn were ever present in Eregion, as we see their names aren't mentioned in the Fall of Eregion. In a writing in Parma from 1965 or earlier it is stated "the settlement at Eregion under Celebrimbor was also very important", but in a note in Nature of Middle-earth, dated to August of 1965, Tolkien states Galadriel and Celeborn "took part in establishing Eregion" and directs us to Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn where they "founded Eregion". In a note against a passage about Celebrimbor of Gondolin who followed Galadriel into Eregion it is stated 'make him a descendant of Feanor', but it is not stated 'make Galadriel the follower of Celebrimbor'. Moreover, the fact that Tolkien wrote Celebrimbor was a Sinda/Teler in 1968/1969 writings implies that he couldn't be the founder of Eregion, because "Eregion was founded by the Noldor". Nonetheless, on Discord people kept saying to me they prefer Galadriel as only a noble of Eregion, not THE Lady of Eregion.
If that's so, then Galadriel broke character again. Some younger guy from the house of "the Dispossessed shall they be forever" took over the rightful leadership of "the greatest of the Noldor except Feanor maybe" even when Annatar still hadn't come around to persuade Celebrimbor (and most of Eregion) to revolt against his "great friend" and in some versions *great crush*.
After the Fall of Fingolfin, majority of the Noldor became the followers of Finrod -> Orodreth -> Gil-Galad, and Galadriel. It is said many people followed her into Eriador. After all she was the eldest of the House of Finwe now, and also a great Telerin Princess among the Sindar/the-Teleri-who-didn't-cross-the-Sea-in-the-Great-Journey, and now the greatest Elf alive. She had enough amount of followers to establish a realm of her own near Moria and Eregion and form great friendship and power with the Dwarves and others and oppose the Shadow in the East. In another word, she could keep in-character. But nope, she didn't. Instead she went to Eregion and as most fans assume she was lesser in title and rank than Celebrimbor in Eregion. So much for Galadriel being "eager to be gone" from Valinor to "rule a realm of her own".
Galadriel did it again in the year 1697 of the Second Age! She broke character again: "Galadriel and Celeborn, and their followers, who after the destruction of Eregion passed through Moria" "Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither [to Lorien] after the downfall of Eregion." (Parma) "...Oropher had withdrawn northward beyond the confluence of the Gladden and Anduin: to be free from the power and encroachments of the Dwarves of Moria, and still more, after the fall of Eregion, from the “domination” of Celeborn and Galadriel. They had passed through Moria with a considerable following of Noldorin Exiles and dwelt for many years in Lórien. Thither they returned twice before the Last Alliance and the end of the Second Age; and in the Third Age, when the Shadow of Sauron’s recovery arose, they dwelt there again for a long time." (the note about Oropher, included in Nature of Middle-earth and Unfinished Tales)
As you can see, she led her CONSIDERABLE host of the survivors of Eregion into Lorien. You know, into somebody else's land. Into the realm of someone who is pretty much a random hobo unintelligent Elf, especially compared to her. Logically she should've led them into another land to establish a realm of HER OWN. But she didn't. Merely gaining a 'domination' in somebody else's land does not match up with her character. She desires far more than that. The land wasn't hers, she merely had a great influence in there, probably more than the King himself tho!
I have posted something similar about 'why Galadriel was not establishing her own realm or why she didn't return to her own realm Harlindon' on a Tolkien forum before. And the answers I got were "she had grown up past her I wanna rule phase". No she didn't. You know what happened to her after the hell she went through in the War of the Elves and Sauron? She became worse. Far worse. Now she was lusting after the Great Ring of Power and now she insanely desired to own the entire Middle-earth and 'save the world' and herself from the Curse of Mandos.
“I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands,” (FotR, Mirror of Galadriel, Galadriel speech to Frodo) "It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand, the Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it," (Shibboleth)
Skipping to the ending years of Second Age... Where was Galadriel in the War of the Last Alliance? Where was the Elf who 'preached' to people that the Valar have abandoned us again and we need to save ourselves by our own efforts? Where was the Elf whose fate was bound to the result of this war? Where was the Elf who desired to turn Middle-earth into Valinor v2? Where was the great pupil of Aulë when they were forging weapons at Imladris? Where was the great pupil of Yavanna and Melian when the healers and supply providers needed her in the war? Where was the most valiant and strongest woman? Where was the greatest of the Noldor? Where was the Elf who was called "the equal ... of Feanor"? Where was the Elf that Sauron feared so much and thought of her as his match and greatest adversary? Where was the angry gal who wanted to avenge her brother Finrod? Where was the Elf who took upon herself that even if the Valar forgive her she would yet again reject them, because she was telling herself I'm so freaking prideful and it is my duty to fight Sauron? Where was the great benevolent of Middle-earth? :')
In Third Age when they offered her the title of the Queen she rejected it. "they [Galadriel and Celeborn] took no title of King or Queen; for they said that they were only guardians of this small but fair realm, the last eastward outpost of the Elves." Finally, after so long, she got a realm of her own (again), but then she proceeded to declare 'nah I'm just a guardian of this realm, not the Queen.' It's not really clearly stated at all why she did that.
The worst character of all time. If Tolkien had so much trouble to finish her character then Tolkien should've just stayed with the version where she abandoned Nargothrond and Doriath and crossed the mountains of Ered Luin and Misty Mountains in early FA and became the wife of Celeborn the Nandorin Prince of Lorien. He should have just finished that version which was very easier to finish. The making of Celeborn into the Sindarin Prince of Doriath and the making of Galadriel into 'I was everywhere but I barely did anything in-character' was a great mistake. A great ambitious retcon, but a completely inconsistent one that was never fleshed out into a logical tale. Therefore, a great mistake.
Don't talk about my teenage elf-crush like that! 
