The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power – Teaser Trailer

[Annatar]

It's a Mannish tradition that the world was once flat. In the Elvish (Western Elvish) tradition the world was always round. Thus these Western Elves thus tried to teach the Numenoreans thusly:

"And behold! the fashion of the Earth is such that a girdle may be set about it. Or as an apple it hangeth on the branches of Heaven, and it is round and fair, and the seas and lands are but the rind of the fruit, which shall abide upon the tree until the ripening that Eru hath appointed."

JRRT, The Drowning of Anadune

Good point. However, that doesn't mean that proximity to the equator has to play a role in how hard the sun burns down and darkens the skin, where Valar influence overrides real-life natural laws. Because otherwise, for example, Valinor would not have been a paradise country, but a tropical jungle in the middle and a desert on the edges. The elves there would all be black, but they are definitely not. Also from the description of the flora and fauna it's clear that Numenor, Tol Eressea and Eldamar were climatically very temperate and mild. Ultimately it's a mythology mostly for England and Europe.
So there is no reason to think that dark-skinned humans could have evolved on Numenor (perhaps with the exception of the few Druedain who settled there, but who already had darker skins).

 

[ZehnWaters]

I'd say it's a Mannish tradition that the world was once flat. In the Elvish (Western Elvish) tradition the world was always round. Thus these Western Elves thus tried to teach the Numenoreans thusly:

"And behold! the fashion of the Earth is such that a girdle may be set about it. Or as an apple it hangeth on the branches of Heaven, and it is round and fair, and the seas and lands are but the rind of the fruit, which shall abide upon the tree until the ripening that Eru hath appointed."

JRRT, The Drowning of Anadune

I depends on when he's writing. Tolkien changed his mind about the matter. I rather prefer that the world was flat and made round during the drowning of Numenor. Further, I like to think Eru shifted the world into another dimension where it existed in space and the Elves leave by departing into another plane of existence.

 

[Elthir]

( . . . ) I rather prefer that the world was flat and made round during the drowning of Numenor.

My post was in general response to the flat-to-round-idea in case it be thought by some to be inarguable.

To my mind it isn't (inarguably a fact), preferences aside

 

[ZehnWaters]

Good point. However, that doesn't mean that proximity to the equator has to play a role in how hard the sun burns down and darkens the skin, where Valar influence overrides real-life natural laws. Because otherwise, for example, Valinor would not have been a paradise country, but a tropical jungle in the middle and a desert on the edges. The elves there would all be black. Also from the description of the flora and fauna it's clear that Numenor, Tol Eressea and Eldamar were climatically very temperate and mild. Ultimately it's a mythology mostly for England and Europe.
So there is no reason to think that dark-skinned humans could have evolved on Numenor (perhaps with the exception of the few Druedain who settled there, but who already had darker skins).

If it's European, and Numenor is akin to Atlantis specifically, Italians, Spaniards, and Greeks can get fairly dark:

 

[ZehnWaters]

If it's European, and Numenor is akin to Atlantis specifically, Italians, Spaniards, and Greeks can get fairly dark:

Heck, even speaking of the British Islands, the Welsh have some who get dark:

BUT, this idea of an inexplicably, extremely diverse population is a modern convention since rapid travel and world-wide movement is easier. Even nowadays, the United States and Brazil are the countries with the highest racial diversity across their ENTIRE country and not just their major metropolitan areas/ports.

 

[Annatar]

If it's European, and Numenor is akin to Atlantis specifically, Italians, Spaniards, and Greeks can get fairly dark

In my opinion, that would still be within the scope of a possible interpretation, although I'd estimate Tolkien's idea differently (rather more Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Germanic/Norse).

By the way, even if it were as hot in Numenor as in Central Africa or Central America (which is definitely not):
All the descendants of the European immigrants who colonized these areas since the end of the Middle Ages still don't look like Africans, but like (southern) Europeans. Except when they had mixed with the natives or their then slaves brought from Africa. Such mixtures, however, would fit quite well - according to Tolkien's descriptions - most likely to Umbar and the further, only vaguely described Numenorian colonies there nearby and further south.

But I have already given up hope that this will be realized even rudimentarily realistically in the series.
They're doing it wrong the other way, too: The black elf's love interest - who is said to come from the south, from a village named "Tirharad" - is white (though the acress is of Persion descent). It can be assumed that this place is south of Gondor. A darker skin color would actually have been appropriate for her. And when I look at the corresponding picture from the Vanity Fair article, the flora there doesn't look like Harad either, but rather typically for New Zealand / Peter-Jackson-Hobbiton and therefore somehow mild and European-like tempered.

For me, this all completely destroys the immersion, and I can say that because I've experienced it on recent fantasy series like The Witcher and Amazon's Wheel of Time.
Anyhow, I think there is no point in delving further into this borderline topic for now, even though it unfortunately had to be brought up due to Amazon's propaganda, fan insults and wokeness policy. (And I'm afraid this will, unfortunately, be cyclical.)

So we're definitely going to get a show where diversity, girl power (I'm sure Xena-Galadriel is just the beginning) and political innuendos are constantly rubbed in our faces. Some will be able to live with it, some will not. But for those who manage to look past that, the question will arise as to whether the plot, the dialogues, the costumes, cgi-effects, the setting, characters, and the atmosphere as a whole will be gripping and deep and in the spirit of Tolkien. In this respect, too, the first trailer was not exciting at all. But in this regard, at least there is still hope that things will get better.

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

Yeah...this feels like generic high fantasy to me.

It would be different if they were from a different region that made sense (like Harad, as you said, or the Sun Lands) but as is it's rather inexplicable. Also, where did all of these black characters GO in the Third Age? Heck, it even makes sense to make the Numenoreans darker-skinned since they've lived on the equator for thousands of years.

My favourite is the black Anne Boleyn. Sidenote, what is all of this subtly saying? Black characters are only good when they're repurposed from white characters? Why aren't they making movies or shows based on African folklore? It's almost like they're saying "Your stuff isn't good enough; here, have our leftovers".

Yes, and what me really totally annoys is, that some people call you a racist, if you say, that Tolkiens elves was not black. Tolkien had the inspiriation to his books from old european legends, in which elves, and dwarfes was always white. I really cant understand, why they didnt take black actors to play the Haradrim, which come from a very warm desert area, which will fit perfect for their black skin color?
Dwarfes cant be black, because they life mostly under the hills, and elves cant be black, because they life in forest areas which has a nordic cold climate....and we all know from history lessons, that people can only have black skin in countrys with a hot climate.
This political correctness diverstity thing in the serie destroy everything, this serie would be only another average diversity serie which can not bring me into the middle earth feeling that peter Jackson had bring me.
There does really exist a movie with a black Anne Boleyn? How horrible....that shows again, how producers ignoring historic facs, only to serve the political correctness.
There are so much movies and series which play in our time and where black actors fit perfect...so why they must do black actors in series, where it not fit so good?

And that is not the only thing...i also totally dislike how Galadriel and Elrond look in it:

https://www.geekfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/11-Galadriel-Eldron-LOTR-ROP.jpg

Here it looks like they having a love affair.....although Elrond is her son in law.....really horrible. And even when Galadriel wears a elvish looking dress in the serie, she dont look elvish to me, like she did in Peter Jacksons genious movies.
Nothing on this serie brings me into a Middle Earth Feeling.....
I remember when i first saw "The fellowship of the ring" without knowing Lord of the Rings before.....the first five Minutes(where the story of the ring was told) has bring me totally into Middle earth, i was totally fascinating, and getting deeper and deeper into this world.
But this trailer wakes no Middle earth feeling in me, it was such a horrible trailer, nothing there was like Tolkien has written it.
And also this black Hobbit woman....totally horrible...i dont think, that Hobbits was black, and she also had a face like a child.....not really typical for Hobbits.
And this black dwarf princess.....that also absolutely dont fit to middle earth....and it shows, that the producers of this serie sacrifice Tolkiens fascinating world to the Diversity.

 

[m4r35n357]

Woke woke woke woke,
Woke woke woke woke,
Woke woke woke woke woke woke woke woke

Come on, you know the tune!

Amazon can do what they like to the story or the legacy, but if they try miscasting any racial types . . .

 

[Annatar]

Heck, even speaking of the British Islands, the Welsh have some who get dark:

Yes, that seems to be the case. I've spent some time wondering why Tolkien always described the Dunlendings as dark on the one hand and Celtic on the other, which to me is a contradiction. But it seems to be the case with the Celtic British that there are also some darker skin types (which are still white in modern sense!). I think the Dunlendings and their relatives don't come off very well in Tolkien's books, unfortunately, but that's another topic. Anyway, he seems to have thought more of the Anglo-Saxons with the Rohirrim and more of the (or certain) Celts with the Dunlendings, though of course he would have ruled out any allegory. But that will probably be more of a topic for the upcoming anime adaptation.

BUT, this idea of an inexplicably, extremely diverse population is a modern convention since rapid travel and world-wide movement is easier. Even nowadays, the United States and Brazil are the countries with the highest racial diversity across their ENTIRE country and not just their major metropolitan areas/ports.

Absolutely. That's what bothers me most about it: You're pulled out of a plausible fantasy world based on European mythologies and you think you're somewhere in New York waiting for the subway...

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

In my opinion, that would still be within the scope of a possible interpretation, although I'd estimate Tolkien's idea differently (rather more Anglo-Saxon/Celtic/Germanic/Norse).

By the way, even if it were as hot in Numenor as in Central Africa or Central America (which is definitely not):
All the descendants of the European immigrants who colonized these areas since the end of the Middle Ages still don't look like Africans, but like (southern) Europeans. Except when they had mixed with the natives or their then slaves brought from Africa. Such mixtures, however, would fit quite well - according to Tolkien's descriptions - most likely to Umbar and the further, only vaguely described Numenorian colonies there nearby and further south.

But I have already given up hope that this will be realized even rudimentarily realistically in the series.
They're doing it wrong the other way, too: The black elf's love interest - who is said to come from the south, from a village named "Tirharad" - is white (though the acress is of Persion descent). It can be assumed that this place is south of Gondor. A darker skin color would actually have been appropriate for her. And when I look at the corresponding picture from the Vanity Fair article, the flora there doesn't look like Harad either, but rather typically for New Zealand / Peter-Jackson-Hobbiton and therefore somehow mild and European-like tempered.

For me, this all completely destroys the immersion, and I can say that because I've experienced it on recent fantasy series like The Witcher and Amazon's Wheel of Time.
Anyhow, I think there is no point in delving further into this borderline topic for now, even though it unfortunately had to be brought up due to Amazon's propaganda, fan insults and wokeness policy. (And I'm afraid this will, unfortunately, be cyclical.)

So we're definitely going to get a show where diversity, girl power (I'm sure Xena-Galadriel is just the beginning) and political innuendos are constantly rubbed in our faces. Some will be able to live with it, some will not. But for those who manage to look past that, the question will arise as to whether the plot, the dialogues, the costumes, cgi-effects, the setting, characters, and the atmosphere as a whole will be gripping and deep and in the spirit of Tolkien. In this respect, too, the first trailer was not exciting at all. But in this regard, at least there is still hope that things will get better.

For me this black elves and dwarfes and all this makes also the immersion into the serie totally impossible.
And this love story of the black elv with a young single mom, a human woman, is absolutely not Tolkiens Middle earth.
In the books the elves (and all other people) life isolated in their own communitys....the elves of Lothlorien for example dont let strangers into their forest....in the book the companions could only come to the golden forest, because Galadriel and Celeborn know Aragorn, and because Legolas is a relative of the Galadhrim, but that was an exception.
All, althought it was Elves in Lothlorien or Mirkwood, or Dwarfes in Moria, or humans in Rohan, live homogeneous. So it is totally absurd, that there is a black elv, which goes away to flirt with a human woman. That is not Tolkiens Middle Earth, that is a strange Diverstity construct, in which is more from our modern time than from Middle Earth.
It is really horrible, that this serie ist he pure wokeness and not Tolkiens Middle earth...for me a reason, not to watch the serie. The trailer was really enough for me, i really cant endure more of it.

 

[Annatar]

Amazon can do what they like to the story or the legacy, but if they try miscasting any racial types . . .

Not sure how you mean that. But a very large part of the overall criticism also refers to things that one would not classify as "woke":
- that the dwarf woman has no beard
- that Galadriel - with just a dagger and some bad CGI effects - easily jumps around an icy abyss in chain armor
- that Gandalfs fall from the sky as meteorites
- that Hobbits play such an important role in the Second Age that airtime is cut off, which could have been used for more important subjects
- that Galadriel travels to Numenor and beats up soldiers there
- that men with huge elk antlers walk around pointlessly
- that everything seems to be about stupid action
- that Galadriel and especially Elrond look far too young
- that Elrond is characterized as a young, ambitious political architect
- that lots of cliche characters were invented instead of focussing on Tolkien's works
- etc.

But most important:
- They don't have the rights for the Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales - so it will be just some fan-fiction, nobody ever wanted to see.

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

Not sure how you mean that. But a very large part of the overall criticism also refers to things that one would not classify as "woke":
- that the dwarf woman has no beard
- that Galadriel - with just a dagger and some bad CGI effects - easily jumps around an icy abyss in chain armor
- that Gandalfs fall from the sky as meteorites
- that Hobbits play such an important role in the Second Age that airtime is cut off, which could have been used for more important subjects
- that Galadriel travels to Numenor and beats up soldiers there
- that men with huge elk antlers walk around pointlessly
- that everything seems to be about stupid action
- that Galadriel and especially Elrond look far too young
- that Elrond is characterized as a young, ambitious political architect
- that lots of cliche characters were invented instead of focussing on Tolkien's works
- etc.

But most important:
- They don't have the rights for the Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales - so it will be just some fan-fiction, nobody ever wanted to see.

And, a really worst thing:

It seems, like the producers will make Galadriel and Elrond to a love couple....that is really a big break with Tolkiens Books, because Elrond married Galadriels daughter. I guess, they will keep off very much of the important charakteres like Celeborn or Celebrian.
And: If Elrond and Galadriel getting a couple in the serie, Celebrian would be never born, and also not Celebrians daugther Arwen.
And: when Galadriel was young and goes over the Helcaraxe, Elrond wasnt born already.

 

[Annatar]

And this love story of the black elv with a young single mom

Well, there are some isolated and special cases where there were love connections between elves and humans, sometimes mutually, sometimes just one-sided.

Since Amazon doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion and they still didn't want to miss out on such a special romance, they simply invented something.

And since it's obviously an important concern of Amazon to mix current left-wing political agendas into everything, of course the Elf has to look like a short-haired black person of the 21st century who is currently cosplaying. And the woman must therefore be a single mother with a different skin color. Anything else would not be contemporary.

Of course, all of this is borderline, if not despicable, for a true Tolkien fan. In my opinion, "gatekeeping" is definitely necessary here.

 

[Annatar]

It seems, like the producers will make Galadriel and Elrond to a love couple....

Yes, I know the image you're probably referring to, but I think it's different than you think.

I'm very confident that the two will not have a romantic relationship. Amazon must not contradict the canon too clearly, after all, that was contractually agreed with the Tolkien Estate.

However, they will use every gray area and newly invented characters to get up to mischief.

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

Well, there are some isolated and special cases where there were love connections between elves and humans, sometimes mutually, sometimes just one-sided.

Since Amazon doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion and they still didn't want to miss out on such a special romance, they simply invented something.

And since it's obviously an important concern of Amazon to mix current left-wing political agendas into everything, of course the Elf has to look like a short-haired black person of the 21st century who is currently cosplaying. And the woman must therefore be a single mother with a different skin color. Anything else would not be contemporary.

Of course, all of this is borderline, if not despicable, for a true Tolkien fan. In my opinion, "gatekeeping" is definitely necessary here.

I dont want to see a fantasy serie, in which Love Storys are one of the biggest part of the story.
I really love how Peter Jackson did it...no Sex, and this cute romantic scene in which Arwen gives Aragorn the evenstar and they kiss each other....that was only a short part of the movie, but everyone know that Aragorn and Arwen love each other.
And also in Two Towers and Return of the King, the love story of both has only around 5 minutes in the whole 3 hour movie, but that is absolutely enough to show how deep their love is.
But i guess, i this serie will 50% of the whole story be love storys.
And for me an immersion into the serie is absolutely impossible, when the characters look like people in our modern, multicultural world. What the producers show there, that is not Tolkiens middle earth...it is a riciculous copy of our own world.
Why this producers make middle earth to our modern world?
A lot of us fans love middle earth, because it is so different from our modern world, and we love to forget the real world for a few hours, while watching the movies of Peter Jackson or reading the books of Tolkien.
But if there are black elves and dwarfes, a homosexual wizard and a lot of more things, that belongs in our modern time, but not into middle earth, this serie makes it totally impossible to use it as escapation from Reality for a few hours.

Yes, I know the image you're probably referring to, but I think it's different than you think.

I'm very confident that the two will not have a romantic relationship. Amazon must not contradict the canon too clearly, after all, that was contractually agreed with the Tolkien Estate.

However, they will use every gray area and newly invented characters to get up to mischief.

This trailer was so absurd, disgusting and ridiculous, that i thinkt, it is even possible, that the producers take Elrond and Galadriel as a love couple. I mean, Peter Jackson was a big Lord of the Ring fan, that is the reason why he make such a good work.
But for this Amazon Producers Tolkien means nothing, for them the serie is only one more serie, which they will produce to earn a lot of money with it. They dont care what the true story of Elrond and Galadriel is.
Even Elronds Look, this short hair, that is so disgusting...it dont look like Elrond....absolutely not elvish...and Galadriel also dont look elvish...she looks like a totally average human woman....she has not the charisma and the Magic that Cate Blanchett had in her role as Galadriel.
The amazon people contradict Tolkien in every way.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Just a reminder to everyone that politics is off limits here.

As are expletives.

 

[Annatar]

a homosexual wizard

However, there is still no evidence of this. I also don't think that 50% of the screen time will go to love stories. I'm more concerned that it will mostly be pretty trivial action scenes. Or just irrelevant, stupid scenes like in Wheel of Time. But that remains to be seen. One shouldn't interpret too many negative speculative things into the trailer, the confirmed ones are already enough.

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

However, there is still no evidence of this. I also don't think that 50% of the screen time will go to love stories. I'm more concerned that it will mostly be pretty trivial action scenes. Or just irrelevant, stupid scenes like in Wheel of Time. But that remains to be seen. One shouldn't interpret too many negative speculative things into the trailer, the confirmed ones are already enough.

I guess, this serie will be as horrible as game of thrones: one part for love storys and sex, the other part for brutal battles wih warrior woman.
I am really shocked, what they made of Galadriel....i see her as peaceful, wise woman in White, not as brutal warrior woman. For me Galadriel was always a symbol für peace and wisedom and for the good.

 

[Annatar]

I guess, this serie will be as horrible as game of throne

I really liked Game of Thrones, at least the seasons that were still based on the books. It was really an excellent adaptation at first because it was so close to the books. And I liked the books. It's just something different than Tolkien, but still good. But of course it would be pointless to impose the flair of Game of Thrones on Middle-earth. That should be kept separate.

 

[LadyGaladriel1980]

I really liked Game of Thrones, at least the seasons that were still based on the books. It was really an excellent adaptation at first because it was so close to the books. And I liked the books. It's just something different than Tolkien, but still good. But of course it would be pointless to impose the flair of Game of Thrones on Middle-earth. That should be kept separate.

I dont like Game of throne, for me it has to much sex and violence, i prefer fantasy in the Tolkien way
I really hope, that some day maybe Peter Jackson will produce a serie about the Silmarillion...he will do it right and dont destroy the hopes of fans like the amazon producers did.