Did barrow-wights fight in ⚔️war of the ring?

[Turin_Turambar]

Were there barrow-wights in the war of the ring?

 

[d4rk3lf]

What do you mean when you say "ear of the rings"?
All events since Frodo left the house, or some specific battle?
If you mean specific battle, then I say no.
If you mean globally (all events) I say.. kind of yes... they certainly participated.

 

[Ealdwyn]

No.
The words of Tom Bombadil:
Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing,
Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains!
Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty!
Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness,
Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended.

So Tom has banished them "far beyond the mountains" "where gates stand for ever shut". I've always read this as banishment out of ME, but YMMV.

 

[Radaghast]

My understanding is that Tom destroyed them. After Tom sings the words quoted by Ealdwyn:

At these words there was a cry and part of the inner end of the chamber fell in with a crash. Then there was a long trailing shriek, fading away into an unguessable distance; and after that silence.

Then:

Together they carried out Merry, Pippin, and Sam. As Frodo left the barrow for the last time he thought he saw a severed hand wriggling still, like a wounded spider, in a heap of fallen earth. Tom went back in again, and there was a sound of much thumping and stamping.

Sounds like Tom literally stamped out the Wights.

In any case the WotR did not extend that far west.

 

[Ealdwyn]

In any case the WotR did not extend that far west.

It did if you count the Scouring of the Shire as part of the WotR. I certainly do.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing,
Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains!
Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty!
Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness,
Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended.

Such words do indeed harbour great power within them. Tom must be secretly amongst the Aratar...

 

[Wastrel]

Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!
Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing,
Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains!
Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty!
Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness,
Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended.

I have imagined that Tom's verses banishing the wight pushed the spirit of the creature outside the Door of Night, outside Arda, where the Valar had once imprisoned Melkor. There are other wights: "evil spirits" from Angmar. The one Tom banished is not the only one. They might have had no interest in warfare, being more like dragons, and accumulating possessions. I don't think they are capable of organized warfare without a powerful evil leader. Or even capable of leaving their barrow.

How does Bombadil have the power to do this? To answer that question, we'd have to know who or what he is, and we don't. I have been writing an essay on Tolkien's concept of "nature-spirits" which may never be completed, but I suggest therein that Tom Bombadil is the spirit of Arda itself.

Nature-spirits entered into the Ents when they awoke. They were sent by Yavanna. The Watcher in the Water, the stream Nimrodel, and such things as the Storm-Giants in "The Hobbit" perhaps are manifestations of nature-spirits in corporeal or incorporeal form. The spirit of the elf-woman Nimrodel may have been able to join with the stream, as she wished, by some special dispensation. The Fall of Gondolin interested me greatly, with its description of mechanical engines of war that had been activated with spirits by Margoth. There are many lesser spirits; not all are of the order of Valar or Maiar. Men and Elves are also spirits with a corporeal body. The body dies but the spirit does not.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

How does Bombadil have the power to do this? To answer that question, we'd have to know who or what he is, and we don't. I have been writing an essay on Tolkien's concept of "nature-spirits" which may never be completed, but I suggest therein that Tom Bombadil is the spirit of Arda itself.

This gets into very controversial territory of topics where uncertainty abounds. I honestly do not know..

 

[Radaghast]

A small part of Arda, sure, but as Gandalf says, he won't leave that part.

He is his own master. But he cannot alter the Ring itself, nor break its power over others. And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them.’

• "The Council of Elrond"

In a letter, Tolkien described him as "the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside". In another he called him an intentional "enigma".

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Intriguing... But do we know of what race he is?

 

[Radaghast]

No, that too is made ambiguous. He is "too large and heavy for a hobbit, if not quite tall enough for one of the Big People, though he made noise enough for one", which almost sort of describes a dwarf.

Tom Bombadil was based on a Dutch doll his kids had and presumably lost, that Tolkien wrote poems about (similar to how Tolkien wrote Roverandom to make up for his son's lost toy dog) that were published in The Oxford Magazine in 1934. I have a suspicion that when Tom says he is "eldest" that this is a sly reference to his being the first Tolkien character to ever appear in print. When Tolkien was kicking around for ideas for the sequel to The Hobbit, he considered Tom. Actually, the bit about "the Oxford countryside" is from that letter, a part of which I'll quote here, in which Tolkien discusses idea for the sequel to TH:

I did not think any of the stuff I dropped on you filled the bill. But I did want to know whether any of the stuff had any exterior non-personal value. I think it is plain that quite apart from it, a sequel or successor to The Hobbit is called for. I promise to give this thought and attention. But I am sure you will sympathize when I say that the construction of elaborate and consistent mythology (and two languages) rather occupies the mind, and the Silmarils are in my heart. So that goodness knows what will happen. Mr Baggins began as a comic tale among conventional and inconsistent Grimm's fairy-tale dwarves, and got drawn into the edge of it – so that even Sauron the terrible peeped over the edge. And what more can hobbits do? They can be comic, but their comedy is suburban unless it is set against things more elemental. But the real fun about orcs and dragons (to my mind) was before their time. Perhaps a new (if similar) line? Do you think Tom Bombadil, the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside, could be made into the hero of a story?

• Letters, # 19, 16/12/37

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

No, that too is made ambiguous. He is "too large and heavy for a hobbit, if not quite tall enough for one of the Big People, though he made noise enough for one", which almost sort of describes a dwarf.

Tom Bombadil was based on a Dutch doll his kids had and presumably lost, that Tolkien wrote poems about (similar to how Tolkien wrote Roverandom to make up for his son's lost toy dog) that were published in The Oxford Magazine in 1934. I have a suspicion that when Tom says he is "eldest" that this is a sly reference to his being the first Tolkien character to ever appear in print. When Tolkien was kicking around for ideas for the sequel to The Hobbit, he considered Tom. Actually, the bit about "the Oxford countryside" is from that letter, a part of which I'll quote here, in which Tolkien discusses idea for the sequel to TH:

• Letters, # 19, 16/12/37

Hmmm... Very intriguing. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Eljorahir]

So Tom has banished them "far beyond the mountains" "where gates stand for ever shut". I've always read this as banishment out of ME, but YMMV.

My impression is there were lots of barrows with potentially lots of wights in the area called "The Barrow Downs". And Tom only dealt with the wights associated with a single barrow. Am I mistaken?

 

[Radaghast]

My impression is there were lots of barrows with potentially lots of wights in the area called "The Barrow Downs". And Tom only dealt with the wights associated with a single barrow. Am I mistaken?

Good question. I wondered about that too.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

That is a very good question! And what about the South Downs?

 

[Eljorahir]

That is a very good question! And what about the South Downs?

I'm no expert on the Barrow Wights, but based on a little reading in considering this thread's question:

I think the South Downs are just ordinary hills. The Barrow Downs are hills containing ancient (First Age) tombs of men (barrows) which were occupied by evil wights much later in history (sent there by the Witch King).

So, back to the question of whether Barrow Wights fought in the war of the ring:
They were subservient to The Witch King.

So, if they had the ability to leave their barrows and if they were ordered to fight, I'd say they could have fought.

For me, there are too many "ifs". So, I don't know if they did fight.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I'm no expert on the Barrow Wights, but based on a little reading in considering this thread's question:

I think the South Downs are just ordinary hills. The Barrow Downs are hills containing ancient (First Age) tombs of men (barrows) which were occupied by evil wights much later in history (sent there by the Witch King).

So, back to the question of whether Barrow Wights fought in the war of the ring:
They were subservient to The Witch King.

So, if they had the ability to leave their barrows and if they were ordered to fight, I'd say they could have fought.

For me, there are too many "ifs". So, I don't know if they did fight.

Hmm.. Thanks for shedding some Light onto that topic... You may be right.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

My impression is there were lots of barrows with potentially lots of wights in the area called "The Barrow Downs". And Tom only dealt with the wights associated with a single barrow. Am I mistaken?

I don't believe so -- that was always my impression too. And since Tom says "Old wight", I think there was one wight per barrow.

In T.A. 1636, the Great Plague wiped out the last inhabitants of Cardolan, "and evil spirits out of Angmar and Rhudaur entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." (Appendix A)
These, according to one version of "The Hunt for the Ring", had been sent by the Witch-king, to prevent the Dunedain from resettling there.

When he returned to the area in 3018, ". . .the Black Captain stayed there for some days, and the Barrow-wights were roused, and all things of evil spirit, hostile to Elves and Men, were on the watch with malice in the Old Forest and on the Barrow-downs."

So, getting back to the original question, you could say they "fought" in the same sense in which you could say Old Man Willow fought. Both were apparently "roused" by the Witch-king, but both were essentially immobile, stuck where they were, able only to lure and entrap the unwary. To put it in modern military parlance, they were like a minefield, rather than a mobile strike force.

 

[Barrow Wight]

My understanding is that Tom destroyed them. After Tom sings the words quoted by Ealdwyn:

Then:

Sounds like Tom literally stamped out the Wights.

In any case the WotR did not extend that far west.

I think Tom stamped out ONE wight. There were more than one haunting the Barrow Downs, IIRC. You are right, though; kind of a moot point, given that that war did not reach that far west.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Of course, we don't know who else may have been ensnared.