How was Minas Morgul destroyed?

[Aldarion]

True as far as Minas Morgul is concerned.
But then there's the Fall of Númenor and associated cataclysms - right up the alley of Scrat's modus operandi in at least one film ... 🤔

Do Numenoreans use water drains?

 

[Olorgando]

Do Numenoreans use water drains?

No idea. Their island ended up going down a really gargantuan water drain, in a manner of speaking ... 🥶

 

[Aldarion]

No idea. Their island ended up going down a really gargantuan water drain, in a manner of speaking ... 🥶

I'm asking because I'm trying to determine what is the chance that Illuvatar simply sent Scrat there instead of doing everything himself...

 

[Barrow Wight]

How was Barad Dur torn down after Isuldur cut off Sauron's finger and the Last Alliance won the siege? The ring and its power still existed, which apparently prevented the "foundations" from being destroyed---but men and their allies were able to tear down most of the Dark Tower after Sauron's spirit had disappeared.

 

[ZehnWaters]

How was Barad Dur torn down after Isuldur cut off Sauron's finger and the Last Alliance won the siege? The ring and its power still existed, which apparently prevented the "foundations" from being destroyed---but men and their allies were able to tear down most of the Dark Tower after Sauron's spirit had disappeared.

Catapults. Trebuchet.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

How was Barad Dur torn down after Isuldur cut off Sauron's finger and the Last Alliance won the siege? The ring and its power still existed, which apparently prevented the "foundations" from being destroyed---but men and their allies were able to tear down most of the Dark Tower after Sauron's spirit had disappeared.

Yeah, I wonder how the Last Alliance did destroy Sauron's fortification, and most of all, why these destructive firepower technology didn't get reserved well, or maybe it's just not mentioned directly. The firepower-net of Minas-Tirith did have devastating "firepower" taking down all the siege-towers, yet not enough to take down Grond and being outranged by Mordor's catapults as well.
In addition, maybe the artillery tatics in JRRT lore would be a interesting further topic to discuss.

 

[Aldarion]

Yeah, I wonder how the Last Alliance did destroy Sauron's fortification, and most of all, why these destructive firepower technology didn't get reserved well, or maybe it's just not mentioned directly. The firepower-net of Minas-Tirith did have devastating "firepower" taking down all the siege-towers, yet not enough to take down Grond and being outranged by Mordor's catapults as well.
In addition, maybe the artillery tatics in JRRT lore would be a interesting further topic to discuss.

Catapults. Trebuchet.

I don't think Barad-dur was destroyed by artillery, and launching stonemasons at the enemy is.... not the best utilization of resources.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

I don't think Barad-dur was destroyed by artillery, and launching stonemasons at the enemy is.... not the best utilization of resources.

What about considering initial desetruction caused by artillery during combat, and letting the sappers clean the rest of already devastated structure?
Destruction against structure caused by artillery fire could even lead to massive bonus casualties such as personnel, possibly even much more abundant than having the artillery target them directly.

 

[Aldarion]

What about considering initial desetruction caused by artillery during combat, and letting the sappers clean the rest of already devastated structure?
Destruction against structure caused by artillery fire could even lead to massive bonus casualties such as personnel, possibly even much more abundant than having the artillery target them directly.

Barad-dur was only torn down after Sauron's defeat. For all we know, until Sauron fell, fortress itself could have been completely undamaged.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

Barad-dur was only torn down after Sauron's defeat. For all we know, until Sauron fell, fortress itself could have been completely undamaged.

So it remained intact in spite of all kinds of firepower, but the Alliance forces did lay siege on it during the battles against Sauron, right?Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure the there's a description mentioning that the Last Alliance had lay siege on Bara-dur, or maybe I had better check it more accurately.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

but the Alliance forces did lay siege on it, right?

"The Siege of Barad-Dûr" must've had a reason to be called such.

 

[Aldarion]

So it remained intact in spite of all kinds of firepower, but the Alliance forces did lay siege on it, right?

They did, and Anarion in fact died when a stone thrown from Barad-dur crushed his helmet.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

"The Siege of Barad-Dûr" must've had a reason to be called such.

They did, and Anarion in fact died when a stone thrown from Barad-dur crushed his helmet.

I mean... it could be possible that both firepower during the combat and those military craftsman did both destroy Bara-dur partillay, could it? To be detailed, I mean, the military conflicts damaged it partillay at first, and then the craftsmanship personnel just clean the rest.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

To be detailed, I mean, the military conflicts damaged it partillay at first, and then the craftsmanship personnel just clean the rest.

Do you mean you think the siege of Barad-Dûr resulted in partial destruction of the fortress on a surface level, and after the war since Sauron's "enchantment" was dispelled, they were able to completely demolish it?

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

Do you mean you think the siege of Barad-Dûr resulted in partial destruction of the fortress on a surface level, and after the war since Sauron's "enchantment" was dispelled, they were able to completely demolish it?

Yes, that's what I mean. After all, if Bara-dur was truly so immune to any kind of damage, Sauron wouldn't have to enegage the frontal combat but just stay in the fortification instead.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Yes, that's what I mean. After all, if Bara-dur was truly so immune to any kind of damage, Sauron wouldn't have to enegage the frontal combat but just stay in the fortification instead.

Intriguing. It's certainly possible, but is it probable? Could also be that Sauron underestimated their abilities and decided confronting them was his best course of action from his list of options.

 

[Aldarion]

Yes, that's what I mean. After all, if Bara-dur was truly so immune to any kind of damage, Sauron wouldn't have to enegage the frontal combat but just stay in the fortification instead.

Intriguing. It's certainly possible, but is it probable? Could also be that Sauron underestimated their abilities and decided confronting them was his best course of action from his list of options.

You are forgetting one simple fact: Sauron cannot defend the entire fortress on his own, and orcs have to eat.

No matter how strong Barad-dur may have been, he simply had to break the siege. Or hope that his enemies run out of food first, but considering the implied logistical capabilities of Elves and Numenoreans (murvivor and similar), that was highly unlikely.

Sauron leaving Barad-dur to confront the Alliance in the field was an act of desperation.

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Sauron leaving Barad-dur to confront the Alliance in the field was an act of desperation.

"I'm not losing my body a second time!"
"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

 

[Aldarion]

"I'm not losing my body a second time!"
"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

"I'm not losing my body a second time!"
"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"

Oh yes, orcish logistic demands seemed to be always much lesser. XD