A question about Glorfindel.

[Maeglin]

I think Glorfindel came to Middle-Earth about the same time as the Ithryn Luin(blue istari), but I'm not entirely sure, it might have been the same time as Gandalf though. But if he came to Middle-Earth with the Ithryn Luin then I think he was around the time Gil-Galad died, or maybe that was very soon after. But if he came later then I can understand why Elrond would get his place higher up.

oh and the quote that you said aragorn gave I find to be kind of ironic because if you remember he didn't want to give up his sword at Edoras.

 

[LUCIFER]

So who is more powerful? Glorfindel or Elrond? if Glorfindel has been to Valinor and back surely he would be the "stronger" one but Elrond has the ring, any thoughts?

 

[host of eldar]

I believe that Glorfindel of Rivendell is the exact one of Gondolin. no doubts. his story is the same as Gandalf and maybe he was more valiant at the second time.
I think Glorfindel is one of the mightiest of elves and men; few ones of whom could stand against sauron. he is not a noldor. maybe he has vanyar blood by his mother but I think the point is; as noldor was the most active and effective elves and vanyar was too few, noldor breed was a bit more valuable we can say. that is for beleriand of course. so glorfindel and ecthelion was subordinated among those noldor princes. but we know their value of course. and I got this from

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/highkingofthenoldor.html

"Gil-galad was the last High King; after his time the title is never used. In order of succession, the Kingship would presumably have fallen on Turgon's descendants; Eärendil (who was in the West and could not exercise it) or his eldest son Elrond (who never made claim to the Kingship)."

that shows elrond could be a high king if he would claim it. he has noldor blood. he was the significant one the affair between elrond-glorfindel is as turgon-glorfindel. I came to that basic conclusion.

then who is stronger? I completely believe that glorfindel is mightier.. his entourage was mightier (ecthelion,turgon,tuor..), his enemies were mightier (balrogs, dragons..) and he was mightier as a warrior with his illustrious armor. elrond fought a lesser war against sauron, he had many allies and I dont know if he had a close combat with sauron.

 

[Bucky]

Glorfindel & Durin's Bane are the two most oft-discussed & idolized minor charactors in TLOR by FAR......

Well, Tolkien works are kinda like the bible is today: people interpret them anyway they chose, instead of letting the text speak for themselves.

You can think Glorfindel is 'greater' than Elrond, but Tolkien doesn't present it that way in The Lord of the Rings by any stretch of the imagination.

'In Many Meetings', Glorfindel is described thusly:

(from a power standpoint only)

'on his brow sat wisdom, & in his hand was strength.'

Compare to Tolkien's description of Elrond:

'Venerable he seemed as as king crowned with many winters, and yet hale as a tried warrior in the fulness of his strength. He was Lord of Rivendell and mighty among both Elves and Men.'

Yes, Glorfindel is a High Elf, but Elrond has 3 things Glorfindel does not:

1. Maian blood from Melian.
2. The best Elven blood from all three houses: Noldorin, Vanyarin & Telarian, which is always presented as being a far cut above the average Elf of that house.
3. A powerful Ring of Power, the most powerful of The Three.

For just one example, Glorfindel can't protect Frodo from the Nine, but they begin to set foot into Elrond's valley & he washes all of them away in a flood in seconds flat...

Now tell me again who's got more power? ;*)

 

[Elthir]

What's this? A Glorfindel thread I'm not part of! Never!

I believe that Glorfindel of Rivendell is the exact one of Gondolin.

That's what Tolkien concluded, yes.

I think Glorfindel is one of the mightiest of elves and men; few ones of whom could stand against sauron. he is not a noldor.

Here however, Tolkien concluded that Glorfindel was Noldorin -- he was originally imagined as one of the Noldoli (see The Book of Lost Tales, Fall of Gondolin) and ended up one of the Noldor.


Now, any other old Glorfindel threads lurking hidden in the back of the forums? don't make me go back there!

 

[Troll]

I heard it said somewhere - though probably not any official source - that Glorfindel returned to Middle-Earth on the same ship that bore the Istari. It stands to reason; I can't think of any other traffic from Valinor to the rest of the world, unless Glorfindel hitched a ride with Earendil and parachuted down to Middle-Earth or something.

The more interesting question about Glorfindel, IMO, is not how or if he came back from the halls of Mandos, but rather why? What did Glorfindel accomplish with his second life? There's only one thing that we know of, and that was saving Frodo from the Nine. Perhaps Manwe knew that there would come a day when the fate of everything would rely on one guy in the right place at the right time, a guy with the kind of spiritual power and skill in horsemanship that can only be found in a hero of the Elder Days (or Liv Tyler). XD

On a last note, I feel as though questions of "power" are a bit silly in the context of the High Elves of Middle-Earth. What would a show of "power" entail in that social setting? For ones such as Glorfindel and Elrond, among the last survivors of a dying race, how would they even measure against each other? Given the presentation of the Elves as collegial among their own narrowly-defined subgroups, why would Glorfindel challenge Elrond or vice-versa? They are allies and possibly kin; neither would stand to gain anything by stirring up trouble and would probably lose face.

I'd bet the Rivendell elves generally spit on the Mirkwood elves, though. A race so obsessed with bloodlines and ancestry strikes me as a ripe field for all kinds of bigotry and discrimination, even if they're ostensibly too "pure" for that kind of thing.

 

[Starbrow]

I agree with Troll. I consider Glorfindel and Elrond to be peers. They are obviously both powerful elves, but I don't know that they would have a contest (arm wrestling or something) to see who was top dog. I think they respect each other and the strengths that each of them has.

 

[Bard the Bowman]

I tend to agree with Troll (a.k.a. Galin). To me Glorfindel is more a warrior. Obviously; he took down a balrog. Elrond's main strength is in wisdom it seems.

 

[host of eldar]

They are obviously both powerful elves, but I don't know that they would have a contest (arm wrestling or something) to see who was top dog. I think they respect each other and the strengths that each of them has.

it's ridiculous to think that way. we dont need to witness a contest to argue their strength. first of all this ideas are all prediction. we are trying to find out something close to real(or truth). and we use writings,books,informations etc. to modify our idea to find an answer to our question. someone said that tolkiens works are like bible, he was right. we can make an argument of a thing and yet come to opposite conclusions. the more we cling on books the more we will be on the right scent. there is no certain true or false..
so I say Glorfindel. he is more warriorlike. Elrond has a great wisdom though..

 

[Troll]

Well, if they did "fight" in any useful sense of the term, we'd have to take Elrond's Ring into consideration. Vilya may not have been designed as a weapon - as the Three Rings were more about protection and healing - but if it's good for anything at all, I imagine it would help Elrond take a hit or two, or at least help him fight on through his wounds.

Glorfindel fought in the Fall of Gondolin, slew a Balrog and died. Elrond fought in the War of the Last Alliance as Gil-Galad's standard bearer and was generally out and about in Middle-Earth contesting the will of the Enemy for millennia during the Second and Third Ages while Glorfindel was chilling in Valinor. For as much as he's renowned as a sage and a scholar, Elrond may actually have more battlefield experience than Glorfindel. For comparison, look at how much ass Gandalf kicked on a regular basis (fought the Nine on Weathertop, most impressively IMO), yet he's not reputed as a warrior, rather as a wizard.

I'd put my money on Elrond. He's smarter, more experienced, and probably mystically more powerful. Plus, those smiths who reforged Narsil? Those guys work for Elrond. If he needed a sword, armor, etc to take on Glorfindel, they'd have his back. Glorfindel, on the other hand, had better hope he brought his own gear, 'cause I doubt anyone in Rivendell, Lorien, or Lindon would be lending him any materiel.

P.S. ~ Don't forget Elladan and Elrohir. I hear those guys are pretty handy in a fight, and I'm sure they wouldn't take kindly to their dad getting smacked around by some hero of elder days.

 

[Bucky]

Folks are so exagerating when it comes to Glorfindel in Middle-earth...

They are like an autistic child 'persevertating' (obsessively focusing) on two things:

Durin's Band
Glorfindel

Before you go PC on me, I HAVE an autistic child....

I'm simply making a point about how out of skew things are: two minor characters people go wild making these in-depth studies on when Tolkien himself wasn't positive on a lot of things....

The fact is in 'Many meetings', Elrond is described 'hale as a warrior in the fulness of his strength' ~ wasn't HE the one that was in final battle on Mount Doom when Sauron was thrown down the first time?

Where was Glorfindel? This suggests that Tolkien hadn't even settled that Glorf was back at the time he wrote TLOR & decided later, like when he wrote the Appendices & included Glorfindel in the battle where the Witch-king was defeated that Glorfindel was in Middle-earth in the Second Age!

Otherwise, such a mighty Elf warrior would've been beside Cirdan, Isidur, Elendil, Elrond, & Gil-Galad right? Orr would he be?

Where's Celeborn, who rules an entire kingdom? :*eek:


Here we have Glorfindel, a mere 'warrior'...

I don't think, either, that it's so clear-cut that he's 'more powerful' than Elrond.

Let's see: Glorfindel can't protect Frodo from the Nine; he simply sends Frodo fleeing on a horse...

One step into Elriond's territory & the Nine get washed away in a flood.
Humm...

But, you say, Glorfindel's a High Elf, seen the Light of the Trees..

True, but Elrond comes from the blood of all three royal families that went to Valinor, which is always presented as being far more noble & powerful. He also has Maian blood from Melian & he carries the most powerful of the Three Elven Rings.

Elrond is no question the more powerful.

 

[Troll]

Where was Glorfindel? This suggests that Tolkien hadn't even settled that Glorf was back at the time he wrote TLOR & decided later, like when he wrote the Appendices & included Glorfindel in the battle where the Witch-king was defeated that Glorfindel was in Middle-earth in the Second Age!

That battle was around 1970ish of the Third Age, not the Second Age. At the time he saved Earnur from the Witch-King, Glorfindel had been kicking around Middle Earth for 900 years.