Aragorn's Weapon

[elvenbladesmith]

well strider, thanks for clearing that up. i havent read the books in a long time, i believ i read the fellowship 3 years ago, and then a book a year since. and i only really skimmed the apendices. so as you can imagine im quite rusty. also im a big fan of the movies, so it tends to cloud my thoughts when i talk about the book.

you said the wraiths would breath on him, and hed pass out? had they been eating alot of onions? and i thought his blade would only disintagrate if he tried to pierced their body/spirit? so wraith blade vs. elf blade, the elf blade would disintagrate upon touching the wraith sword?

 

[HLGStrider]

It should be noted that Aragorn was given two heirlooms: the ring of Barahir and Narsil. It can be speculated that he kept the ring until Lothlorien when he presented it to Arwen, about twenty years. However, it is a lot easier to carry a ring around safely than other things.


He would have had this ring in Gondor, wouldn't he? I'm not sure if I have my time line straight on this, but Lothlorien came after Gondor, didn't it?

Anyways. . .

Elgee - is that in the Appendices?

Thinking back, it might be in the Book of Lost Tales and because of that I am at a disadvantage. I don't own those as a complete set. I just have one small volume. I have read the larger volume once but since then have not been able to find it in my local library, nor for sale for a reasonable price.

 

[Valandil]

Ah - OK. I've only begun my HoME collection - I just have two of the later ones.

You are correct that Aragorn would have had the Ring of Barahir when he served in Gondor. I had never thought about that. I wonder if he would have worn it or kept it hidden upon himself - which I guess would depend on whether someone might notice it and be able to guess what it was.

29 years from his first meeting with Arwen to giving her the ring in Lothlorien - to be precise.

 

[HLGStrider]

Precise numbers aren't my thing . . . that's why I'm a banker.


That is so romantic, a family heirloom engagement ring. . .sigh . . .melts. . . swoons. . .

Anyway, I am probably the forum's biggest book Strider-phile (Viggo you can have any old day. Strider as the books portrayed him is MINE!), and even I think it highly unlikely, illogical that he didn't have some sort of weapon on him. I re-read the chapter Strider last night and he is described as basically enveloped in his great, dark green cloak. It concealed Narsil completely. It could have at least also concealed a knife (something it wouldn't have been considered strange for him to be carrying around in the first place.).

 

[Alatar]

That would work, as the reason he did not use the knife on weathertop, was that fire was better than any blade.

 

[Thorondor_]

That would work, as the reason he did not use the knife on weathertop, was that fire was better than any blade.

You mean a bunch of peasants could stave off the nazguls using fire?

 

[Alatar]

No, but if aragorn had used a blade and no fire on weatertop, then the terror would have been complete, and would not have retreated after stabbing frodo, but kill aragorn to.

 

[Thorondor_]

Do you think they are afraid of fire-breathing creatures, or of the flames of Mount Doom?Aragorn himself states that what had the greatest impact on the nazguls was Frodo shouting "Elbereth Gilthoniel". And it makes pretty much sense that magic (magic words) affect them and not common elements; I doubt that nazguls are vulnerable to fire - it wouldn't make that useful in a war or on a siege.

 

[Alatar]

From the fellowship of the ring.

There is little shelter or defence here, though fire shall serve for both. Sauron can put fire to his evil uses, as he can all things, but these rider do not love it, and fear those tat use it."

 

[Thorondor_]

Hmm, yeah... and if we consider that in the next chapter Aragorn says that no blades are useful, you have a good point that fire is better than blades. I still believe that the name of Elbereth drove the nazguls off (not the fire). Tho, most likely, its a matter of debate.

 

[Ingwë]

I agree with you... probably. When Sam and Frodo were captured in Minas Morgul their password was 'Elbereth', wasn't it? Sam say that the orcs will never say that word. Maybe the Nazgul afraid, too.

 

[HLGStrider]

What drove the Wraith's off was three fold, in order of importance:

1. Elbereth was said. This also proved to them that Frodo, who up until this point had made very pitiful resistance and was seemingly falling into their hands, was ready to fight.
2. Aragorn was jumping at them with burning brands, which I think would have a similar effect to the water at the Fords, it would decloak them temporarily.
3. They assumed that, with the sliver of the blade in his shoulder, Frodo would quickly succumb to their powers, and they could get him without risking a singing from a suddenly more threatening Aragorn.

It should be noted that Aragorn was not at the top of his "power" at this point. He was undercover, out of guise, and I don't think he was ready to proclaim himself king to the Nazgul who would certainly inform Sauron, "Oh by the way, when we were fighting up North, we bumped into the Heir of Elendil. I thought you told us he was dead?"

It would have been a stupid time to play that card, if he didn't have to.

 

[Thorondor_]

Hm, you are rather contradicting yourself at point three... why would they expect Aragorn to be any threat with his "singing"? It's not like any mortal can stave off nazguls (as if its so, those guys are pretty worthless )

 

[HLGStrider]

When Aragorn jumped at them, they probably didn't "see" Aragorn. They saw the burning brands. However, there is a good debate there in an old infamous Harad thread (Called Nazgul Incompetence or something. . .I'll try and drag it up). I think they would have noticed Aragorn was a very brave man, otherwise he would not have jumped forward at all, and they probably would have gotten the idea that he was somehow "special" for lack of a better term, but I don't think he would have gone at them with the full, "I am king, hear me roar," bit.

It is interesting to note that Glorfindel (who we can assume was armed. . .I can't remember if it is mentioned or not) also chooses to wield burning brands at the ford, not whatever sword he happened to have on him, and I would think Glorfindel would have been in possession of a blade at least as powerful as Narsil. He is, after all, a very powerful and ancient elf.

If so we can assume that Glorfindel, as well as Darling Strider, considers blades useless against these beasties. . .or at least considers fire superior.

However, it was Glorfindel, wasn't it, who made the prophecy that a man could not kill the Nazgul. If he meant that as "man as a sex" rather than "Man as a race" he might have thought "I can't kill this guy anyway, so I'll just frighten them with fiery sticks."

 

[HLGStrider]

http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?t=2380&highlight=Nazgul

Here we have one of the great classic of the forum. . .I don't know if we ever decided anything in it.

 

[Valandil]

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However, it was Glorfindel, wasn't it, who made the prophecy that a man could not kill the Nazgul. If he meant that as "man as a sex" rather than "Man as a race" he might have thought "I can't kill this guy anyway, so I'll just frighten them with fiery sticks."

Not 'could not' - but 'would not'... the Nazgul (or W-K in particular, as that's who the prophecy was about) were NOT invincible from men - but I think Glorfindel got a glimpse or revelation of what would come to pass.

Oh - also I don't think Glorfindel necessarily had a sword as good or better than Narsil - unless we're talking about the un-re-forged variety - I think Narsil and Glamdring were probably the two best personal weapons of their age. They both seem to have been handed down from the First Age - and I don't think that many other First Age weapons were still around late in the Third.

 

[HLGStrider]

There is always Orchirst if you want to go dig it up. . .


I didn't know Narsil's history went that far back. I always assumed it was Numenorean make and came from the island smiths. Anyway, with Nazgul the age of the sword didn't matter, only the intent in its making. I doubt Merry's little blade had the ancestory of Narsil, yet it was made with wraiths in mind, so it enabled his stroke.

I wonder what a non-wraith-killing blade would have done if it had pierced the Witch King. All we know is that Aragorn states all blades that pierce him perish. It doesn't say what happens to the King.

Eowyn's blade would have been useless without Merry's stroke, however; and I would assume Narsil or any other blade Aragorn happened to have on him would be likewise futile.

 

[Telëlambe]

Are you sure Narsil is that old? i thought it was made in nogrod by Telchar and was named after Elendil's kids?

 

[Alatar]

Telchar is preety old, as in he made thingols weapons old. I assume that narsil came from the sack of mengeroth, with thingols sword, and where Thingols sword was a heirloom of the kings, narsil was given to the lord of andune.

 

[Thorondor_]

Are you sure Narsil is that old? i thought it was made in nogrod by Telchar and was named after Elendil's kids?

Telchar did made Narsil, but he lived during the First Age. Elendil inherited the sword, probably from his distant ancestor Elros.