Balrogs.....

Grond · Dec 19, 2001

I don't have the book in front of me but I remember clearly that Gandalf was outside the chamber and had put a shutting spell on the door leading out of it. Gandalf states something to the effect "I felt a presence enter the chamber that I have never felt before. The counter-spell was tremendous....." Something to that effect anyway. I'll get the direct quote when I get home. I got the impression that the Balrog was definately in the Chamber of Marzubal or whatever it was called.

Aredhel · Dec 19, 2001

You proved your point, Grond, Hammer of the Underworld. But I think perhaps I was a bit exxagerating?

The Gaffer · Dec 22, 2001

Grond,

Of course the Ring can think. Gandalf even says that it can feel its Master stirring and it is trying to return to him. It is the Ring itself that lays the Doom on Gollum, i.e. touch me again and you'll go into the fire (rather overreached there, din' it? ).

Curufinwe · Dec 31, 2001

Balrog

Well what do you think of Balrog's now that lotr the movie has come out? I say there too tall and look too much like god's how could Ecthelion or any other elf or human be able to kill such a creature in middle earth?

JeffF. · Jan 4, 2002

No Wings

All arguments about the 'shadow' versus the 'wings' aside, if the Balrog had wings it would not have fallen into the chasm when Gandalph destroyed the narrow bridge.

Grond · Jan 4, 2002

JeffF.

A double post that isn't a double post. I don't think I've ever seen one done quite like that.

BTW.... Welcome to the forum.

Cian · Jan 4, 2002

I've done that too I submit one, it don't seem to "go", I edit ... then, submit, then two! "closely related" posts. Or something.

heheh. Oh well. Hullo JeffF.

Grond · Jan 4, 2002

Yea Cian, but his posts are different, yet, the same. Look at them both. They say the same thing but are subtly different. I've never done that.

Cian · Jan 4, 2002

Ok, I've done something like that ... LoL

Earnil · Jan 6, 2002

Well has anyone taken into consideration that maybe if Balrog's had wings then maybe they weren't for flying, perhaps the size of the Balrog itself resulted in it being unable to fly because of the size of the wings in comparison to the body.

I have always thought that Balrog's had wings just for the same reason that many flightless birds today have wings, purely for threatning stances.

pippin le qer · Jan 12, 2002

Originally posted by Strider
have you ever tried running on all four limbs? that's hard, no, not hard, impossible, because your rear legs are designed for upright movement. since ball (rogs) *LMAO* leapt a lot, i'd expect their legs as EXTREMELY long, maybe their torso length?

dear Strider,
please use an other penname: my legs are already longer than my torso and I'm a rather short person. the first book of anatomy for artists will show you that a torso is 3 heads from chin to crotch and legs are 4 1/2 from hip to heel.
Strider was known in the Pancing Pony for his long legs.

Smèagol_Gollum · Feb 9, 2002

A Balrog is a thing of living embers, with fire licking from its eyes and great wings that were hazed with smog. It could not fly when Gandalf shattered the Bridge because it fell backwards, and if you think about it, a bird cannot lie upside down and fly. Plus, Gandalf fell with it, as he recalled in Rivendell, and he could well have kept it from escaping. When they hit the far bottom where the icy underground moat lay, the flame of the Balrog was extinguished, and it became a chunk of ash. When they found their way out and Gandalf made the thing fall once again, it was still wet and could not properly fly. As for the age of the Balrogs, there may be "older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world", but this quotation does not include Sauron, so I must say I think he is older. Gandalf calls the Balrog of Moria "Flame of Udun", Udun being a valley in the land of Mordor, so I got the impression that they were bred by Sauron, as that is his land.

Grond · Feb 9, 2002

Originally posted by Smèagol_Gollum
A Balrog is a thing of living embers, with fire licking from its eyes and great wings that were hazed with smog. It could not fly when Gandalf shattered the Bridge because it fell backwards, and if you think about it, a bird cannot lie upside down and fly. Plus, Gandalf fell with it, as he recalled in Rivendell, and he could well have kept it from escaping. When they hit the far bottom where the icy underground moat lay, the flame of the Balrog was extinguished, and it became a chunk of ash. When they found their way off and Gandalf mad the thing fall once again, it was still wet and could not properly fly. As for the age of the Balrogs, there may be "older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world", but this quotation does not include Sauron, so I must say I think he is older. Gandalf calls the Balrog of Moria "Flame of Udun", Udun being a valley in the land of Mordor, so I got the impression that they were bred by Sauron, as that is his land.

Your quote isn't exactly right and if you think Sauron created Balrogs, you need to read the Silmarillion, The Valaquenta, Chapter Of the Enemies. It will tell you why you are wrong. By the way.... welcome to the forum.

Beleg Strongbow · Feb 10, 2002

Originally posted by Smèagol_Gollum
quotation does not include Sauron, so I must say I think he is older. Gandalf calls the Balrog of Moria "Flame of Udun", Udun being a valley in the land of Mordor, so I got the impression that they were bred by Sauron, as that is his land.

The balrogs were made by iluvatar and as maia and then were tortured, bred and corrupted by the greatest vala Morgoth, the REAL dark lord of whom Sauron was only a servant. I still beleive that the balrogs can't fly. Who has heard of a maia flying?? And if a balrog fell back down it would still be able 2 fly and he wasn't lying aganist something on his back he had only air. Also does anyone no if there are any more balrogs lurking in deep places.

P.S if the balrogs spent most of their times under ground whether in Angband, Utumno or in moria eg. how would they have been able 2 test there wings?

Flame of Utumno · Feb 10, 2002

Originally posted by Smèagol_Gollum
Gandalf calls the Balrog of Moria "Flame of Udun", Udun being a valley in the land of Mordor, so I got the impression that they were bred by Sauron, as that is his land.

'Udun' is the Sindarin form of the Quenya word 'Utumno' which was the first fortress of Melkor in Middle Earth. Furthermore, they were not bred, but were Maia that became evil.

Smèagol_Gollum · Feb 10, 2002

Sorry, I had forgotten about Utumno, and by bred, I meant converted to Melkors side of evil. I still say they had wings, because Tolkien was never a believer of evolution and would not have thought about that kind of thing. And why couldn't the Maiar have wings? I'm sure Manwe had wings, being a lover of the wind and sky.

Belladonna Took · Feb 10, 2002

balrog wings

Perhaps this is getting too allegorical (and I know Tolkein hated allegory) but I always thought of the Balrogs as demons, like the angels who followed Lucifer out of heaven. I would assume that they perhaps lost some power when they became evil Maiar, and I would think that they would be confined to a bodily form and therefore killable. I don't think that they were or could be bred b/c none of the Valar or Maiar were able to breed (except Luthien's mother, but that was a special case)

Halasían · Apr 1, 2021

Kraas said:
As for the wings bit...I think they had them, and used them, but they only flew when they had to. There's a part in the Silmarillion that states that Morgoth or Glaurung or someone sent tongues of flame "faster than the Balrogs" sweeping over Ard-Galen. And I think that wings would be the best way to move quickly over long distances (like the Balrogs coming to Morgoth's aid when Shelob attacked him). There are probably other ways of travel. Maybe Balrogs can fly without wings, but I've always saw them as having wings.

If Balrogs had wings, how is it that the one in Moria "fell"?
Would he have simply flapped its wings and flew and/or hovered?

Oromedur · Apr 2, 2021

Halasían said:
If Balrogs had wings, how is it that the one in Moria "fell"?
Would he have simply flapped its wings and flew and/or hovered?

They have a habit of falling. They don't have wings.

Squint-eyed Southerner · Apr 2, 2021

On the other hand. . .

Balrogs.....

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