Bombadil and 👁️Sauron face to face!!

[meneldor]

I have often wondered the result of these to meeting. While the discussion of Bombadil has heated up again I ask this question. Would Sauron have any power of our favorite enigma or would Tom just laugh at him, give him some flowers and a have a nice day bumper sticker? Tom held the ring in his hand and played with as it was a toy, would it be the same if they had met?

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

My guess is that Tom Bombadil would not have been strong enough to withstand the might of Sauron and the Ring put together as is hinted the council of Elrond. There it is said that only few parts of the world would originally remain uncorrupted, but they too would be ensnared. Maybe Tom would just continue to exist, but his realm would be corrupted and therefore his use in the parts, the very purpose of his existence, would disappear.

 

[Gothmog]

From "The Council of Elrond

`But in any case,' said Glorfindel, `to send the Ring to him would only postpone the day of evil. He is far away. We could not now take it back to him, unguessed, unmarked by any spy. And even if we could, soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come.'

It would seem that Glorfindel at least did not think that Bombadil was a match for Sauron and the council did not disagree with him on this. so I would say that although the ring had no hold on Tom, his strength was not such as could battle with Sauron face to face.

 

[HLGStrider]

I doubt Sauron would have taken Bombadil too seriously. Bombadil's powers are so different from Sauron's. Also, Bombadil wouldn't take Sauron seriously. If you're suggesting a fight, Bombadil would probably tra la la la la away laughing. . .not exactly an effective method to destroy an enemy. . .annoy, yes, destroy no.

 

[grendel]

Well, I don't know... Sauron was a Maiar, and I think the consensus is that Bombadil probably was also... so their powers should have been of the same magnitude. Bombadil probably never really put his to full use... but if he did, why couldn't he take on Sauron? Especially a Ring-less Sauron? And if not defeat him, at least earn a draw?

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

A Maia is not necessarily equal to all other Maiar, since they were not mass produced... Just the same way as Melkor was the mightiest of the Ainur, so could Sauron be mightier than Bombadil, no problem. Their powers were very different as was stated before, but their purposes were different. It is my opinion that if Bombadil had the River Daughter (and mind, that would not be granted under a second darkness... just the same way as Sauron could master the three Rings, he could also affect the River Daughter, because she too was a part of what had been controlled by the Three) he and Sauron would have coexisted, with Bombadil on a small oasis inside the darkness. But afterwards the darkness would have crept inside his realm too and he would be destroyed from within. There would be no battle, because Tom would not try to battle Sauron himself for the land. He would probably try another Girdle of Melian strategy, which in my view would not have worked.

 

[Aglarband]

Bombadil would so win, unless Sauron cheated, and we all know the bad guy ALWAYS cheats.

For real though, Tom would win because his love for Goldberry and his land would make him want to live. I think Glorfindel was saying that Bombadil could not take Sauron and his army. No doubt Sauron would even risk fighting Tom 1 vs. 1, and if they did, Tom would win because he is Tom.

 

[Telëlambe]

I agree with the whole girdle of Melian theory. If all the men and elves perished and darkness spread over the world, tom would carry on heedless, and have little to do with the outside world. All of Saurons servants would not be able to penatrate Tom's land (even if he wished to try, which i think he would not) as tom in his own small land has an imessurable hidden power, and he doesnt seem to know fear, whereas the baddies alwase know fear.

 

[Greenwood]

In the Council of Elrond, Elrond says that the power to resist Sauron is not in Bombadil. He says that if Sauron wins and conquers Middle Earth, than Bombadil would be last as he was first. Elrond says this when it is suggested that the Ring be sent to Bombadil for safekeeping. So he is sayng Bombadil does not have the power to resist Sauron, even if Sauron has not yet regained the Ring, if he has already conquered all of Middle Earth.

 

[Telëlambe]

in the form he is in perhaps, but if he is a miar, and not restricted to any for such as the istari, he could perhaps do what he wanted as being of equal spirit to sauron.

 

[Alatar]

Well i think that sauron is the stronger maia there, maybe the strongest everas he was chosen by melko and it is said that morgoth toaught him things.

 

[Greenwood]

in the form he is in perhaps, but if he is a miar, and not restricted to any for such as the istari, he could perhaps do what he wanted as being of equal spirit to sauron.

That is a mighty big "but" in there considering there is not one bit of Tolkien's writings, that I am aware of, that states Bombadil is a Maia. Even if there was, there is still Elrond's comment. Of course, if you wish to completely disregard what Tolkien has written in the form of Elrond's comments, that is up to you. Personally, I prefer to accept Tolkien's own views on the matter when they have been clearly stated.

 

[Telëlambe]

lol, alright alright, you win.

 

[Ingwë]

Of course Sayron will win. We don't know whether Tom Bombadil is a Maia or he isn't. Sauron was servant of Morgoth, he forged the One Ring, he was many other powers. Tom has no chance

 

[Alatar]

Well if you think what was said about Lorin, it could not be invade as of the power in that land unless sauron came.
So if Bombadil has more power than Galadriel, then Sauron would have to come and fight him 1 one 1.

 

[ingolmo]

I'm not really sure. Bombadil was able to withstand the power of the Ring, so why not Sauron. But as Elgee pointed out, I doubt Tom would want to fight Sauron. 'Tom Bombadil's got to get going, Cause Goldberry is waiting...Tra la la la la.' I doubt Tom would even take anything seriously even if he were standing alone in front of the Black Gate, with thousands of hosts of orcs facing him.
And how about making this a poll, Elgee?

 

[HLGStrider]

Here is my theory: Sauron wouldn't need to defeat Bombadil in the end Elrond refers to. When all else has fallen, when all good in Middle Earth has passed, something in Bombadil (who it has been suggested is in fact the spirit of the English/Middle Earth country side) would cease to exist, and Bombadil would perish by default. By conquering Middle Earth, Sauron is conquering Bombadil.

This is what I take Elrond to mean by "when all else is gone, Bombadil will fall."

When the hillsides themselves have been stripped of their beauty and tortured beyond recognition, when there ceases to be trees, when there ceases to be beauty, Bombadil ceases to exist.



Oh, as for a poll, I'd have a hard time picking out enough coherent options other than 'Bombadil would beat Sauron" "Sauron would beat Bombadil" and "Bombadil would go off tra la laing."

 

[Thorondor_]

According to letter 153, Bombadil is "a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind".

I think that the correct interpretation to the fact that :"if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First" is that if there isn't anything else to be known, the spirit of science cannot exist anymore as such, thus Bombadil's identity will be lost. I don't think Tom will fall because of the corruption around him, no matter how deep that is, he will "fall" (loose what identifyes him/gives him reason to live) only when science doesn't have any object.

 

[Wraithguard]

Thorondor_ is correct on manny occasions there. But the question here is not how he will fall but whether or not he would stand against Gorthaur. Being that Bombadil is the embodyment of pure natural science, Gorthaur would have at least some major difficulties with him. Of course then again think of what Gorthaur did with Ereinion and Elendil at Barad-dûr in the Last Alliance.

 

[theostyn]

lol Tom is the master he has been around alot longer then sauron (even before the elves came and he is the only one of his kind) why do u think his wife calls him THE master. Tom is the most powerful force knowen to middle earth do you remember from the book ware frodo gets taken by the wights tom just dances and kills ever thing... Tom loves the forest and thats the only thing he cares about so if sauron won and he conquered ever thing to the old forest thare wold be a 1v1 be cause he would be the only thing from world domination (so tom would clap his hands three times sing a song and blow all of mordor and sauron off the face off middle earth) !!! p.s Tolkien's first work was poems about Tom bombadil and his wife goldberry so the author would make tom win no matter the odds P.s.s adding a army will not even the odds vs tom