Glorfindel or Ecthelion - who is a greater 🧝elf?

Ecthelion · Apr 11, 2003

Well, the poll doesn't lie and it looks like Ecthelion is the greater elf (for now anyway)

Inderjit S · Apr 12, 2003

For long years he remained in Valinor in reunion with the Eldar that had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar...his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice...

HoME 12; Last Writings

Near equality with the Maia is no mean feat. Thius it is probable that after re-incarnation Glorfindel was the more powerful Elf.

Rain-King · Apr 12, 2003

Don't mean to accuse but I do believe that quote is made up or in some way materialized or misquoted. Tolkein only specified by word of Mouth the details as to whether Glorfindel was one and the same. He said that he thought so which implies a yes but such was the wording of {Christopher} Tolkein pertaining questions about his works that we can enver be sure. It was never proven in a book (as far as I know). Feel free to correct me on this, please provide a source reference though. Glorfindel was, indeed a powerful Elf though after his reincarnation or Glorfindell II was a powerful Elf nevertheless. He lived partially in the mortal world and partially in the spirit world and was powerful in both.

<Later Edit>
My apologies, Melko has already quoted what I am referring to.

Tar-Elenion · Apr 12, 2003

If you are refering to the quote Inderjit supplied, it is not 'made up' or 'misquoted'. Inderjit cited the book it is from (HoME 12) and the section (Last Writings).

Inderjit S · Apr 13, 2003

Don't mean to accuse but I do believe that quote is made up or in some way materialized or misquoted.

Yeah I'm in the habit of making up quotes to back up my judgments. Get your facts right before accusing people of materializing or misquoting things.

Tolkein only specified by word of Mouth the details as to whether Glorfindel was one and the same. He said that he thought so which implies a yes but such was the wording of {Christopher} Tolkein pertaining questions about his works that we can enver be sure

Wrong. Glorfindel, from the beginning had been a Elf of Gondolin, re-incarnated, or at least Tolkien had pondered it for a while.

His heroic end stretches all the way back to The Lost Tales legendarium, as seen by his death in FoG. (BoLT2). We can see that in the 'Latter Annals of Beleriand' of HoME 5, which encompassed all Tolkien's pre-LoTR work on the 1st age, Glorfindel’s ends still remained:

They fell into ambush there and Glorfindel of the Golden House of Gondolin was slain

Looking at the drafts for LoTR, it is apparent that Tolkien imagined Glorfindel of Gondolin and of LoTR to be the same person.

'Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin'

HoME 6; At Rivendell

Tolkien writes a mini-essay on Glorfindel’s re-incarnation in HoME 12. It is entitled 'Last Writings'.

Maeglin · Sep 9, 2003

This is an old thread that I just found....but I must say that Glorfindel is better (surprise surprise right?). Anyway...I say it because Glorfindel actually meant to kill his balrog, Ecthelion just got his spiked head stuck in THE balrog and they both ended up drowning...and the whole city fell anyway, so what good was that? Glorfindel, on the other hand, slew a balrog that allowed the refugees to get away (Turin Turambar and Elwing included, 2 of the most important figures in the Sil). Also, Glorfindel rescued/protected Frodo from the Black Riders at the ford. What more do you need? So there you have it, Glorfindel is the best!

Maedhros · Sep 9, 2003

Anyway...I say it because Glorfindel actually meant to kill his balrog, Ecthelion just got his spiked head stuck in THE balrog and they both ended up drowning...and the whole city fell anyway, so what good was that?

Only that he saved Tuor's life.

(Turin Turambar and Elwing included, 2 of the most important figures in the Sil).

I think that you need to get your facts straightened first.

Maeglin · Sep 10, 2003

Turin, Tuor.....Idril, Elwing...what's the difference?! If you had only read the Sil once you would get the names confused too! Maybe not Idril and Elwing...but Turin and Tuor you would!!
And are you sure Ecthelion actually saved him? I thought Tuor had already left the city at this point...

Maedhros · Sep 10, 2003

And are you sure Ecthelion actually saved him? I thought Tuor had already left the city at this point...

From The Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin

Tuor stood then in the way of that beast, but was sundered from Egalmoth, and they pressed him backward even to the centre of the square nigh the fountain. There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, son of Melko. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp.

Yes, I'm sure.

Turin, Tuor.....Idril, Elwing...what's the difference?

Then what's the difference between Ecthelion and Glorfindel.

Khôr’nagan · Sep 14, 2003

Ecthelion may have been the better fighter, but Glorfindel was, by far, the coolest Elf. And Elvish coolness is 90% of how good of an elf you are, so Glorfindel totally wins. I mean, how cool is it that he died (killing a Balrog), went to Mandos, got let out (re-incarnated) and got sent beck to Middle-Earth? Then, he fought with the Nazgul (more specifically the Witch King of Angmar) and helped to drive off the Nazgul at the Ford of Bruinen. He then proceeded to fight in the many battles between the Elvish lands and the forces of Dol Guldur/Mordor. I don't know about you, but on a scale from 1! to 10!, Glorfindel gets a 362,880 (same as Legolas). Of course, he can't possibly get as good as Fingolfin (the BEST ELF EVER!!!), who's coolness rating is a full 3,628,800. Eclthelion gets a 40,320. No one can get as good as Fingolfin (aint that right, Rain-King?)

Okay, enough crazyness. Ecthelion was the better fighter, but Glorfindel was the greater Lord. They just about even out, each with a 9 (on a 1-10 scale). Legolas and Fingolfin also recieve 9's, (though they are so much cooler), and Feanor recieves a 10 (he was the greatest Elf that ever lived; and that's a fact).

Well, that's my opinion.

Maeglin · Sep 15, 2003

Okay....a bit strange, but whatever floats your boat. I don't see how you give Legolas such a high rating...but this is not the correct forum to discuss that. But I do agree with your thoughts on how Ecthelion is a better fighter while Glorfindel is a greater Lord.

Kahmûl · Sep 23, 2003

In my opinion Glorfindel is the greater elf.

Maedhros · Oct 2, 2003

From The Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin

Then there was carnage at the barriers, and Egalmoth and Tuor went from place to place of the defence, but Ecthelion lay by the fountain; and that stand was the most stubborn-valiant that is remembered in all the songs or in any tale. Yet at long last a drake bursts the barrier to the north -- and there had once been the issue of the Alley of Roses and a fair place to see or to walk in, but now there is but a lane of blackness and it is filled with noise.
Tuor stood then in the way of that beast, but was sundered from Egalmoth, and they pressed him backward even to the centre of the square nigh the fountain. There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, son of Melko. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp. Then leapt Ecthelion lord of the Fountain, fairest of the Noldoli, full at Gothmog even as he raised his whip, and his helm that had a spike upon it he drave into that evil breast, and he twined his legs about his foeman's thighs; and the Balrog yelled and fell forward; but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.

I think that one of the reasons that Ecthelion is not voted more is because people, have not really read the Tale of the Fall of Gondolin in Bolt2.

Confusticated · Sep 15, 2010

Both were so great that it doesn't really matter who was greater. Those who loved Glorfindel or were saved by him (or someone they love was saved by him) would pick him maybe, and the same for Ecthelion.

Like many of the Noldor these were valiant and honourable elves, and they were given the opportunity to make one of the biggest sacrifices possible, and they chose to give their life for others. They could not have lived if they wouldn't have done what they done.

Let me step between a balrog and somebody else, then maybe I'll be fit to judge it?

I feel that for me to raise one above the other would be disrespectful to the other. I guess opinions change over time - and for the better!:*)

Both had achieved total greatness.

Bucky · Sep 16, 2010

Silly question....

But silly questions follow the two most overblown minor subjects in Middle-earth:

Balrogs
and
Glorfindel

People seem to insist on getting anal about these two subjects ad nauseum for as long as I can remember, like:

'If Glorfindel was one of the Fellowship and the Balrog had gotten the Ring from Frodo in Moria and set himself up as a Dark Lord, would Glorfindel have been able to challenge him for the mastry of Middle-earth (at least until he met Sauron)' and then write a 3,000 word paper on the subject with nary a fact to back up their opinion gone wild. :*p

Confusticated · Sep 16, 2010

Well speculating off into ones own fiction can be it's own reward for the imaginative.:*D

Turgon · Sep 16, 2010

10 points to Bucky for using the word nary, man I love that word!

Confusticated · Sep 16, 2010

I think you've seen me use it! Give me points too!!

Turgon · Sep 16, 2010

Okay, without having any proof, I will have to trust to your honesty and award you five points...^^

Confusticated · Sep 16, 2010

What does that bring my total to? :*p

Glorfindel or Ecthelion - who is a greater 🧝elf?

Who achieved more/is a greater Elf?

Glorfindel

Ecthelion

They are equal in achievements

.................

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