Originally posted by Ceorl
Personally I have always considered a mace as a range of weapons, all of which could be described as maces. I have considered a hammer as a mace type weapon.
I have thought that the description for a mace was the following; a single shaft with a single blunt end, either spiked or not. A hammer fits that description perfectly, and I have always considered it a mace.
Weapons that I do not consider maces are the following; flail, morning stars, all bladed weapons, any ranged weapons, clubs.
Very interesting,I would say.I found similar materials and your idea seems correct,I think.Originally posted by Tyaronumen
Actually, historically, flails and morning stars have often been lumped into the mace class of weapons. Flails and morning stars could accurately be referred to as a variant of mace -- but the mace could not be referred to as a variant of flail, or morning star... while in English, we tend to think of the mace as the round head, or the spiked head, etc. 'mace' was just another word for 'hammer' and is often used interchangably with the term 'warhammer' in medieval texts, although nowadays, if you were to purchase a replica, you would find that the 'warhammers' that are available for sale are quite a bit more hammer-ish than the 'maces' that you now find available for sale...
From Home 5: Quenta SilmarillionHigh Morgoth towered above the head of Fingolfin, but great was the heart of the Gnome, bitter his despair and terrible his wrath. Long they fought. Thrice was Fingolfin beaten to his knees and thrice arose. Ringil was his sword, as cold its blade and as bright as the blue ice, and on his shield was the star on a blue field that was his device. But Morgoth's shield was black without a blazon and its shadow was like a thundercloud. He fought with a mace like a great hammer of his forges. Grond the Orcs called it
Could he be that he used Grond (a hammer) as a mace? Not sure myself. Or was it a mace + hammer.Then Morgoth hurled aloft as a mace Grond,the hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder.
NO a morning star is a particular form of flail.Originally posted by TheFool
I think Anamatar's pic is a 'Morning Star' too. (Lantarion just beat me to it!)
To further complicate matters, I used to think a morning star was a spiky ball attached to a chain/handle - but no, apparently that is a 'flail' ....
I would say that Grond is a mace (without spikes); I think 'Hammer of the Underworld' is just a phrase (as in 'Flame of the West' etc)
Tall as a tower, Morgoth wore an iron-crown and black armour. He carried the mace called Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and a huge black shield. The fire of malice was in his eyes, his face was twisted and scarred and his hands burned perpetually from the fire of the Silmarils. Yet in the War of Wrath, all of Melkor’s power was destroyed, and he alone of the Valar was driven from the Spheres of the World, and dwells forever in the Void.
Actually, I was mistaken. The picture I cited was also by Howe. The mace you speak of, looks very similar to a classic war hammer and not a mace at all. In the picture I cited, the end of the weapon clearly appears mace-like with a war hammer like protrusion slightly below with a pointed base. So both weapons appear to be a combination mace/war-hammer/spear.
from Morgoth's Ring
...'Darkness and blood! When we could move again we came to the house. There we found the king slain at the door. His head was crushed as with a great mace of iron. We found no others: all had fled, and he had stood alone, defiant. That is plain; for his sword lay beside him, twisted and untempered as if by lightning-stroke. All the house was broken and ravaged. Naught is left. The treasuries are empty. The chamber of iron is torn apart. The Silmarils are taken!'
It does indeed say spear but either Grond was both Mace and Spear or Melkor wielded both as Finwe appears slain by a crushing weapon like a mace. The actual date of Grond's making is never identified in any of Tolkien's writings.from The Silmarillion, Of the Darkening of Valinor
...Then the Unlight of Ungoliant rose up even to the roots of the Trees, and Melkor sprang upon the mound; and with his black spear he smote each Tree to its core, wounded them deep, and their sap poured forth as it were their blood, and was spilled upon the ground.
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