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How fast can a 💀Nazgul fly.?

Vorondil

Inquisitor Lord, of the Ordo Spammicus
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In The Two Towers, Gandalf says that: ''It is two-hundred leagues or more in straight flight from Barad-Dur to Orthanc, and even a Nazgul would take a few hours to fly between them.'' I measured on the map, and it's about 590 miles between Barad-Dur and Orthanc, so if it flew that distance in 3 hours, it would give it a speed of around 196 miles per hour. Is that right?
 
But heat doesn't have to come just from an eruption.
Maybe the mountain just got mad and 'steamed up' a bit, enablng them to waft up on a steam jet with some serious acceleration.

OR, maybe Sauron invented some gas tanks to strap to their... umnhh... undersides toward the rear, for a little added propulsion. After all, he was using Saruman, who had invented some pretty neat gas jets, explosives, and the like...

I do tend to agree the 'going up' would present a gravitational issue needing to be dealt with somehow, and whether the 'coming down' would MORE THAN compensate for that is a bit questionable... I doubt to the extent of 'days' worth of difference...

But hey...
 
Well, no one said it yet,
so I guess I "must".

Monty Python and the Holy Grail / Characters - TV Tropes


African or European?
Why?
 
I am physically incapable of understanding the concept of mph so I'm not going to participate.
You're joking, right?
I understand the metric system just fine... can do a lot of imperial to metric conversions in my head, if not in my sleep.
I had to do it in my job (for 34 years) because at least one third of the equipment I used or worked on was made to Metric specs, but a lot of the tools I used were made to imperial specs.
So your are "imperiaIly challenged"? 😄
 
You're joking, right?
I understand the metric system just fine... can do a lot of imperial to metric conversions in my head, if not in my sleep.
I had to do it in my job (for 34 years) because at least one third of the equipment I used or worked on was made to Metric specs, but a lot of the tools I used were made to imperial specs.
So your are "imperiaIly challenged"? 😄
Well, at least the anglophone world has managed to get distances and areas harmonized.
So why can't you get your act together for volume?????

The gallon is either about 3.8 (US) or about 4.5 (imperial) liters.
Have you ever tried to get those quarts (and / or pints) sorted at a beer festival after a couple of liter mugs (the "standard displacement" for Bavarian beer festivals)????? 🙄🥴🤢
 
Well, at least the anglophone world has managed to get distances and areas harmonized.
So why can't you get your act together for volume?????

The gallon is either about 3.8 (US) or about 4.5 (imperial) liters.
Have you ever tried to get those quarts (and / or pints) sorted at a beer festival after a couple of liter mugs (the "standard displacement" for Bavarian beer festivals)????? 🙄🥴🤢
We have? We did? When did that happen? 😮
(I guess I didn't get that memo 🙄...)
 
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We have? We did? When did that happen? 😮
(I guess I didn't get that memo 🙄...)
Well, a short superficial scan of Wikipedia might give a "metrician" that possibly faulty impression for the mile and its subsidiaries (furlong, yard, inch) and the acre and its relatives (I did have to deal with this stuff that in metrical notation has no end to the right of the decimal point for nine years).
As to memos ... 🤔
Perhaps it happened before memos became popular in such learned circles - or these circles selfishly restricted the distribution to the membership of their self-defined elite ... 🤨
 
What about at the Black Gate? Its about 100 miles from Dagorlad to Orodruin, and the Eagles had to have flown the distance in around 30 minutes. This would mean that they had to be doing about 200 mph.
 
Gwaihir, Landroval, and most likely the 3rd eagle as well, were among the last direct descendents of the 'great Eagles' as I recall.
Given the nature of things, and Tolkien's writing indicating they did it, I would guess if 200 mph is what it took, then well... they did it. 😆
I personally ain't got nuttin' better for ya than this on the issue.
(Gandalf had specifically requested 'fastest folk only' for the trip I think.)
 
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Actually, I would have assumed it to be in less.
As soon as Frodo put the ring on, the Nazgul flew toward Mt. Doom.

As soon as Gollum bit his finger off and fell into the abyss, the already responding mountain heaved, grounds shook, walls melted, etc. with Frodo and Sam still standing there inside the mountain.

If it's really 100 miles from the gates before Mordor to Mt. Doom, it heaving and cracking and spitting stuff all over, walls melting and they still inside, I'm amazed they weren't cooked before they could leave... much less having any 30 minutes to have a mountain erupting and collapsing around them.

That said, it is 'fantasy'.
 
just picked 30 minutes as the maximum time. Now that I think about it, it would have to be closer to 10 minutes or less.

It took the Eagles at least an hour to get to Sam and Frodo.
So the eagles flew a little faster than 100 mph (161-162 kmh), which is a reasonable "giant eagle speed" in a fantasy setting... 200 mph would beggar
belief even in ME (imo). Despite ME being "the land of faerie" within his subcreation Tolkien still strove to maintain plausibility.

And how did I arrive at these numbers? (asks @Aethelwulf in utter confusion, dismay and indignation).

Right away dismiss all images in your head from the movie scene; Sam and Frodo did not dash from the Sammath Naur (S-N) and leap onto the ash hill right across from it. That makes for good action drama but, again, go ad fontem (read the book!) for the real story.
The ash hill was a good ways distant from the S-N doorway.

N.B.: I'm using Fonstad's ME Atlas for all distances and locations.

1) The Nazgul did not immediately fly off to Mount Doom when Frodo "put on the Ring and claimed it for his own".
"At his [Sauron's] summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl....southwards to Mount Doom."
Also: "But the Nazgûl turned and fled,...hearing a sudden terrible call out of the Dark Tower."
(Mount Doom is a little over 100 miles---straight line-- from where the Forces of the West stood on the two slag heaps)

2) At the same time (1) was happening Sam "got up, dazed" from being clobbered with a rock by Gollum.
There now ensues the fight between the unseen Frodo and Gollum: to and fro, falling to ground, rising again, teetering on the brink of Crack. finally Gollum biting off Frodo's finger and doing his "happy dance", losing his balance, falling and being consumed by the fires.

(3) The Eagles had already arrived by the time of (1) because they "bore down" on the Nazgûl even as they were were wheeling away at Sauron's call.

(4) Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Sam picks up Frodo, carries him outside and stands there and watches the fall of Barad-dûr which, big as it is, takes some time to occur; it didn't just collapse like a house of cards. Right after that, Frodo and Sam have a convo about Frodo's hand, the Ring, Gollum's part etc.

(5) At Sam's (imminently sensible) suggestion, they leave the dangerous S-N and "went slowly down the winding road... and passed toward the Mountain's quaking feet....[and] reached a low ashen hill at the Mountain's foot."

If you look at Fonstad's map you'll see the Ashen Hill is at least 2 miles, if not closer to 3 miles (on foot) from the S-N doorway.
Add that to the Mountain quaking, there is debris falling from the skies, rock and shale slides, and they are now off the road (which was tumbled rock even when they first climbed it), Sam and Frodo would be lucky to traverse that distance at even 2 mph; by way of comparison 2mph is a leisurely strolling pace.

Also, Mount Doom didn't suddenly explode (blow its top/side out) like Mount St Helens; it erupted, extremely violently to be sure, but it didn't "blow up".
And all that, "rending and vomiting" Tolkien describes took some time to happen.
(For a great simulation of what it was like for the Pompeii-nians when Mt Vesuvius erupted in 79AD.....Destruction of Pompeii)

So from the time Frodo put on the Ring, to the time the Three Eagles arrived to rescue them, was at least an hour if not longer.
Therefore they flew at no more than 100 mph, probably slower. The Nazgûl would be slower still.

(And Watson, I hope you are duly chastened at having made your ill-considered estimate 🙄... I expected so much better of you 😉)
 
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It took the Eagles at least an hour to get to Sam and Frodo.
So the eagles flew a little faster than 100 mph (161-162 kmh), which is a reasonable "giant eagle speed" in a fantasy setting... 200 mph would beggar disbelief even in ME (imo). Despite ME being "the land of faerie" within his subcreation Tolkien still strove to maintain plausibility.

And how did I arrive at these numbers? (asks @Aethelwulf in utter confusion, dismay and indignation).

Right away dismiss all images in your head from the movie scene; Sam and Frodo did not dash from the Sammath Naur (S-N) and leap onto the ash hill right across from it. That makes for good action drama but, again, go ad fontem (read the book!) for the real story.
The ash hill was a good ways distant from the S-N doorway.

N.B.: I'm using Fonstad's ME Atlas for all distances and locations.

1) The Nazgul did not immediately fly off to Mount Doom when Frodo "put on the Ring and claimed it for his own".
"At his [Sauron's] summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl....southwards to Mount Doom."
Also: "But the Nazgûl turned and fled,...hearing a sudden terrible call out of the Dark Tower."
(Mount Doom is a little over 100 miles---straight line-- from where the Forces of the West stood on the two slag heaps)

2) At the same time (1) was happening Sam "got up, dazed" from being clobbered with a rock by Gollum.
There now ensues the fight between the unseen Frodo and Gollum: to and fro, falling to ground, rising again, teetering on the brink of Crack. finally Gollum biting off Frodo's finger and doing his "happy dance", losing his balance, falling and being consumed by the fires.

(3) The Eagles had already arrived by the time of (1) because they "bore down" on the Nazgûl even as they were were wheeling away at Sauron's call.

(4) Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Sam picks up Frodo, carries him outside and stands there and watches the fall of Barad-dûr which, big as it is, takes some time to occur; it didn't just collapse like a house of cards. Right after that, Frodo and Sam have a convo about Frodo's hand, the Ring, Gollum's part etc.

(5) At Sam's (imminently sensible) suggestion, they leave the dangerous S-N and "went slowly down the winding road... and passed toward the Mountain's quaking feet....[and] reached a low ashen hill at the Mountain's foot."

If you look at Fonstad's map you'll see the Ashen Hill is at least 2 miles, if not closer to 3 miles (on foot) from the S-N doorway.
Add that to the Mountain quaking, there is debris falling from the skies, rock and shale slides, and they are now off the road (which was tumbled rock even when they first climbed it), Sam and Frodo would be lucky to traverse that distance at even 2 mph; by way of comparison 2mph is a leisurely strolling pace.

Also, Mount Doom didn't suddenly explode like Mount St Helens; it erupted, extremely violently to be sure, but it didn't "blow up".
And all that, "rending and vomiting" Tolkien describes took some time.
(For a great simulation of what it was like for the Pompeii-nians when Mt Vesuvias erupted in 79AD.....Destruction of Pompeii)

So from the time Frodo put on the Ring, to the time the Three Eagles arrived to rescue them, was at least an hour if not longer.
Therefore they flew at no more than 100 mph, probably slower. The Nazgûl would be slower still.

(And Watson, I hope you are duly chastened at having made an ill considered estimate 🙄... I expected so much better of you 😉)
It would seem that for once, Lestrade is on the right track.
 
1) The Nazgul did not immediately fly off to Mount Doom when Frodo "put on the Ring and claimed it for his own".
"At his [Sauron's] summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl....southwards to Mount Doom."
Also: "But the Nazgûl turned and fled,...hearing a sudden terrible call out of the Dark Tower."
(Mount Doom is a little over 100 miles---straight line-- from where the Forces of the West stood on the two slag heaps)
I will read this carefully again...
As I read it, Sauron's "summons" comes... the 'sudden terrible cry'... when Frodo puts on the ring and 'claims it for his own.'

It's not until that moment Sauron realizes his peril and huge mistakes.
Thus the 'sudden, terrible call' to try to save his bacon.

Thus, the need for 'teleportation' to achieve the timeline of the Canon of Tolkien.

There is only time for the struggle with Gollum, during which the mountain is already responding, etc. and when gollum hits the pit, the walls are melting, and somehow Frodo and Sam are not baked. This is no hour.. it's meres minutes, at best.

HOWEVER... I may not be understanding some other event eliciting this 'sudden, terrible cry' from Sauron... though I recall none other in the text.

Anyway, review is always refreshing.
 
I will read this carefully again...
As I read it, Sauron's "summons" comes... the 'sudden terrible cry'... when Frodo puts on the ring and 'claims it for his own.'

It's not until that moment Sauron realizes his peril and huge mistakes.
Thus the 'sudden, terrible call' to try to save his bacon.

Thus, the need for 'teleportation' to achieve the timeline of the Canon of Tolkien.

There is only time for the struggle with Gollum, during which the mountain is already responding, etc. and when gollum hits the pit, the walls are melting, and somehow Frodo and Sam are not baked. This is no hour.. it's meres minutes, at best.

HOWEVER... I may not be understanding some other event eliciting this 'sudden, terrible cry' from Sauron... though I recall none other in the text.

Anyway, review is always refreshing.
What about the 2+ mile trek to the Ashen Hill? No way they did that any faster than 2mph.
What about Sam watching B-D fall?, and talking with Frodo prior to walking (partway) down the blasted path?
But the biggest time consumer is that 2+mile trek.
 
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What about the 2+ mile trek to the Ashen Hill? No way they did that any faster than 2mph.
What about Sam watching B-D fall?, and talking with Frodo prior to walking (partway) down the blasted path?
I dunno. That's why I'm going to review the full scope of things.

but I must say though it may well be my conclusion matches yours when I've reviewed it all more closely, given the description of the internal events of the Mountain, my biggest surprise is still the lack of a fricasseed Frodo and scalded Sam. It was far more than just 'hot' in there.

I believe that's why Gwaihir would have been willing to take Gandalf there and blast them into the pit, hoping for a singed Sam snack into the bargain.
 

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