How many 🧝elves were at Helm's deep?

krash8765 · Apr 13, 2003

Well there was enough of them to man the deeping wall and there was also more elves on the ground behind the wall shooting arrows. Since there was 3 lines of elves lining the entire deeping wall and about 100 elves in a line i would guess about 750 elves total in Helms deep. Its kind of sad when there all slaughtered and that not one of them made it out alive. How many do u think were there?

Aragorn21 · Apr 14, 2003

Yeah, I'd guess around 200, and that's as many orcs as they killed in the first volley! And the second! And the third!

Even though that wasn't in the books it was a really cool part of the movie.

JeffF. · Oct 14, 2003

You Missed Aragorn's earlier statement

At Edoras Aragorn is telling Theoden that he has 2,000 men available (the same number that is in the book). Watch the movie on Pay Per View. Notice the number of elves on the wall and then the number that are behind it. There are far more than 300 elves and 300 men.

Éomond · Oct 14, 2003

Re: Fanfiction!

Originally posted by sepdet

How can that many elves possibly all be dead?

I give PJ credit for sticking to Tolkien there. If PJ were to let any Elves live through Helm's Deep ('cides ole Lego-boy) then the Elves would have gone to Minas Tirith and the Pelennor Fields. So maybe that's why they died? It would seem to wierd to have them in RotK? But who knows, it's PJ.

Elka · Oct 16, 2003

From my estimate, I would say that there were probably 250 Elves.

JeffF. · Oct 16, 2003

Not All Elves Died

In the movie no character states that all the elves died. Aragorn clearly passed the order to fall back to the Hornburg and we see the elves start to do so. some must have been able to. We see from the secens of Theoden's charge that there was still fighting going on outside the Hornburg tower. I think PJ will come up with some reason why the elves don't show or go to Minas Tirith though I predict that some of Gimli's fellow dwarves will.

Ol'gaffer · Oct 16, 2003

Elves at Helms Deep: 300-400 plus Haldir and Legolas.

Originally intended to be longer in length the battle of Helm's deep will be in it's full form in the EE and will show the full faith of the elves.

Some elves will appear in the battle of the pellenor fields.

This was taken from an interview with PJ, I can't believe it, he's going out of control....

Éomond · Oct 16, 2003

Originally posted by Ol'gaffer
Elves at Helms Deep: 300-400 plus Haldir and Legolas.

Originally intended to be longer in length the battle of Helm's deep will be in it's full form in the EE and will show the full faith of the elves.

Some elves will appear in the battle of the pellenor fields.

This was taken from an interview with PJ, I can't believe it, he's going out of control....

Indeed he has

Dáin Ironfoot I · Oct 17, 2003

There was one elf at Helm's Deep in the book....

Well there was actually 2.

Legolas (100% Elf) = 1 Elf

Ellrohir and Ellrohan (50%Elf a piece) = .5 Elf= .5 Elf = 1 Whole Elf

1+1=2!!!

I probably spelled their names wrong. And I may be incredibly wrong in saying they were at Helms Deep.

JeffF. · Oct 17, 2003

Elladan & Elrohir

They did not fight at Helm's Deep. They arrived with the Grey Company, the Dunedain of the North after the battle and met Aragorn while he was accompanying Tehoden and Gandalf to see Saruman at Isengard (imprisoned there by the Ents).

Dáin Ironfoot I · Oct 20, 2003

Zut. I need to brush up on my Tolkienology!

DGoeij · Oct 21, 2003

Re: You Missed Aragorn's earlier statement

Originally posted by JeffF.
At Edoras Aragorn is telling Theoden that he has 2,000 men available (the same number that is in the book). Watch the movie on Pay Per View. Notice the number of elves on the wall and then the number that are behind it. There are far more than 300 elves and 300 men.

Then how come Legolas makes this remark about 300 vs. 10,000?

And I remember the shots form Helms Deep as well, that was one big mass of Elvish warriors on and behind that wall. You just wonder how those Uruk-hai ever managed to get through.

JeffF. · Oct 21, 2003

Legolas exagerrating

It sounds better when he's trying to make a point. Aragagorn in the movie and Tolkein in the book both state there were 2000 men there. You can see from the panoramic shots of the battle that there wer far more than 300 men on the Hornburg and the Deeping Wall. In the book Legolas doesn't make such a claim nor does he loses heart albeit temporarily.

DGoeij · Oct 21, 2003

So the defence was actually as it was described by Tolkien? A 1000 men from the local militia already there (most of them a little old and a little young, but still) and the 1000 men Theoden brought with him. But those were, as stated, at least sufficient in defending both the Hornburg and the wall.
This is quite opposite to Legolas' statement and the stomachtwisting scenes of the forming of Rohans very own 'Volkssturm'.

I still refuse to buy the DVD though. I'm wating for the EE.

JeffF. · Oct 21, 2003

PC run amok

I was disgusted by the scenes in the movie where unwilling old and young were conscripted into fighting. It is evident throughout Tolkein's books, including Unfinished Tales, that the Rohirrim were a warrior people. The young men would have clamored to join the fight and the old men proud to do so. It's Political Correctness run amok that we must show that 'good' abhors war. This was also another unecessary deviation from the books (like Aragorn's unnecessary wounding in the battle with the wolf riders and separation prior to the battle at helm's Deep, it added nothing to the story.

Ol'gaffer · Oct 22, 2003

Re: PC run amok

Originally posted by JeffF.
I was disgusted by the scenes in the movie where unwilling old and young were conscripted into fighting. It is evident throughout Tolkein's books, including Unfinished Tales, that the Rohirrim were a warrior people. The young men would have clamored to join the fight and the old men proud to do so. It's Political Correctness run amok that we must show that 'good' abhors war. This was also another unecessary deviation from the books (like Aragorn's unnecessary wounding in the battle with the wolf riders and separation prior to the battle at helm's Deep, it added nothing to the story.

How where they unwilling? To me it seemed as if they went willingly into battle, they embraced their loved ones and went to stand in the front.

In no part was there a person who acted as if he would have refused to fight but was made to.

This showed that the people of Rohan were most courageous of all. Their families were in the caves and the soldiers alone could not protect them, so the fathers and sons took up their swords and joined in the battle to protect their families.

DGoeij · Oct 22, 2003

Re: Re: PC run amok

Originally posted by Ol'gaffer
In no part was there a person who acted as if he would have refused to fight but was made to.

This showed that the people of Rohan were most courageous of all. Their families were in the caves and the soldiers alone could not protect them, so the fathers and sons took up their swords and joined in the battle to protect their families.

Well, the shots I remember are old men and hesitant little boys being pointed at by soldiers and very reluctantly walking forward. If there had been any need for this insignificant addition to the ranks of the Rohirrim, wouldn't a general call to all the able bodied men have been enough? Given the nature of Rohan society as put by JeffF?
And why weren't these people send back to the rear as soon as the Elves showed up? I mean, put a full grown soldier/Elven warrior in front of an Uruk-hai or a ten year old, hardly able to stand upright, let alone lift his sword.

lightingstrike · Nov 15, 2003

I would say around 4 to 5 hundred. I know that seems a little high, but it just seems that for the length of time that just elves were able to defend the deepening wall, around that number would seem correct. I would consult my book but, or darnit, there were no elves in the book at Helm's Deep. Oh well.

Arda · Mar 27, 2004

.

I'd say around 500. The deeping wall was pretty long from end to end and they had 3 rows of elves on it. Plus they had what seemed about 2 companies on the ground.

Aisteru · Apr 4, 2006

In the Weapons and Warfare book for the Movies, they say that 200 hundred of the Immortal fought and died at Helm's Deep.

King Oropher · May 11, 2006

I had the same question in mind, depending on how long the deeping wall is then you can probably figure it out from there, there were three rows of elves standing shoulder to shoulder, plus about 4 to 5 rows behind the wall if I remember correctly. I always had a rough estimation that there were about 500 - 700 elves.

Aldanil · May 21, 2006

So, just how many elves WERE there?

Not to rain on anyone's parade of heroes harder than need be . . .

The number of Elves at Helm's Deep was ONE

Y'all didn't really think that all this Jacksonian gibberish had any bearing on the matter, didya?
Is the heir of King Thrandruil not good enough then, that 500 Egyptian robots must be recruited?

How many 🧝elves were at Helm's deep?

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