I'm a bit confused!

Ok, Gandalf has a ring that does wut?
And wut are Gandalf's other names?
And how many other wizards are there?
And wut are their names?

thanx

-Gandalf has the Ring of Fire- (Narya The Great)
-Gandalf has many names; Mithrandir, Olyrin, Tharkun, Incanus, Gandalf Greyhame, Stormcrow, White Rider, Grey Wanderer and the Grey Fool.
-There are 5 Istari; Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the 2 Blue Wizards.

Any body know what their order was called befor Saruman betrayed them all?

the order was called the order of the Istari.

Also, I don't think that Grey Fool was ever officially validated by Gandalf as a name for himself

Also, I don't think that Grey Fool was ever officially validated by Gandalf as a name for himself

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And Stormcrow was?

Well, actually, yes, in a way:

‘Because I come seldom but when my help is needed,’ answered Gandalf. ‘And as for counsel, to you I would say that you are over-late in repairing the wall of the Pelennor. Courage will now be your best defence against the storm that is at hand - that and such hope as I bring. For not all the tidings that I bring are evil. But leave your trowels and sharpen your swords!’
‘The work will be finished ere evening,’ said Ingold. ‘This is the last portion of the wall to be put in defence: the least open to attack, for it looks towards our friends of Rohan. Do you know aught of them? Will they answer the summons, think you?’
‘Yes, they will come. But they have fought many battles at your back. This road and no road looks towards safety any longer. Be vigilant! But for Gandalf Stormcrow you would have seen a host of foes coming out of Anórien and no Riders of Rohan. And you may yet. Fare you well, and sleep not!’

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Sorry to split hairs

ok thanks guys

Originally posted by Pippin_Took
[B-There are 5 Istari; Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the 2 Blue Wizards. [/B]

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If memory serves... the blue wizards were named Alatar & Palando


I probably misspelled them , could someone check them for me? It should be in UT in the chapter about the Istari. Thanks, i haven't got that book handy.

They are Alatar and Pallando

I thought the two Blue Wizards never had any "officail" names?

Olorin wasn't metioned as one of Gandalf's names. Actually, it should be Gandalf was one of Olorin's names.

They were 'officially' mentionned in UT, but the draft from which their names are taken was scribbled on the back of a matchbox or something. Nonetheless, it is the only occurrance of their names, so it stands as the official text on that matter.

The Blue Wizards were Alatar and Pallando???

Not so!!!

(c.f. one of the manyfold threads on TTF about that issue or this link)

The Istari names are given in UT as: Curumo (Saruman), Olorin (Mithrandir), Aiwendil (Radagast), Alatar, and Pallando. These last two have no other names associated with them, and it is assumed that they were the "Blue Wizards" that travelled into the East of ME with Curumo, but did not return with him.

Originally posted by olorin the maia
and it is assumed that they were the "Blue Wizards" that travelled into the East of ME with Curumo, but did not return with him.

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I believe it was a fact

Here is an extract from the Wikki.

*The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war of Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor- worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had a very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the east ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.*


This is very strange. For the Wizards and Glorifindel both came in the third age.

Here is a quote from Published UT.

They first appeared in ME about the year 1000 of the Third Age

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So which one is correct?

In all honesty, I do not see anything relevant concerning the Blue Wizards on the Tolkien Wiki site. At least nothing new to the discussion.

On speculative terms the names of the two "BlueWizards" could be either Alatar and Pallando or Morinehtar and Rómestámo (or Róme(n)star). However, this cannot be considered a fact!

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I still consider their names to be these. I don't see much point in trying to disprove what Tolkien wrote, even if it was just a bunch of illegible writings.

Originally posted by ithrynluin
In all honesty, I do not see anything relevant concerning the Blue Wizards on the Tolkien Wiki site. At least nothing new to the discussion.



I still consider their names to be these. I don't see much point in trying to disprove what Tolkien wrote, even if it was just a bunch of illegible writings.

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In my understanding the TolkienWiki is not supposed to present discussions - this is what BBSs are for - or new aspects for discussions here. It is meant to provide factual information in form of short descriptions, summaries, essays, FAQ's and readers' comments on those.

But due to the nature of the Wiki project it will never be 100% complete or 100% accurate, but all contributing members there are trying their very best to provide a well-founded Tolkien-knowledgebase. But we are always open for additions or corrections...

As for the issue of the names of the BlueWizards: On the one hand I haven't found any factual connection in (J.R.R.) Tolkien's writings between the term "Blue Wizards" and the names "Alatar" and "Pallando" and on the other hand they could as well (with the same degree of justification) be "Morinehtar" and "Rómestámo".

In the "Last Writings" (HoMeXII) Tolkien at first - once again - states: "No names are recorded for the two wizards. They were never seen or known in lands west of Mordor... " and on another piece of paper the names Morinehtar and Romestamo (or Rome(n)star are mentioned. (notabene: There is no reference to the term "Blue Wizards" or "Ithryn Luin")...

But of course, how people interpret those facts, and how they regard to the given information (which is often contradictional), what parts they put more weight on and which parts they omit or disregard, is of course up to everyones preferences. However, we do not have a clear and un-ambiguous answer to that issue from Tolkien. Hence every answer of the form: "The names of the Blue Wizards are ..." is omitting part of the facts and cannot be considered "truth" or "factual information".

Originally posted by Beleg_strongbow
Here is an extract from the Wikki.

*The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war of Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor- worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [?dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had a very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of the east ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.*


This is very strange. For the Wizards and Glorifindel both came in the third age.

Here is a quote from Published UT.



So which one is correct?

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Both!?! None!?! Either?!? Honestly I don't know...

This is one of the cases where we get different or contradictional informations from the Professor.

The second passage you refer to (from the essay about the Istari in the UT; p. 502) had been written 1954.

The first passage you quoted (from the Wiki) is originally from the HoMe Vol XII (p 384f). This is counted among the latest writings of Tolkien and by that time (~1970) he had come to the conclusion that Glorfindel returned to ME (probably) about SA 1600 (at the same time as the "other two" wizards).