• Welcome to The Tolkien Forum! Connect with fellow Tolkien enthusiasts and join a community that is over two decades old, and still going strong. We look forward to meeting you.  Register

Lonely ⛰️Mountain -A Pentagram ?

Gandalf to the party before parting... "Not a step further this way, thank you! The rest is your affair though if you ever find the dragon (& escape him againa!) I hope you will remember your old friend... " Pg 142 A Brief History of The Hobbit. This quote shows how Gandalf despite being their friend urgently must attend other business and it shall be their bravery which will help them defeat Smaug. Then please remember our friendship ...
 
The Hobbit is interestingly steeped in the same magic attributed to Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. For the Green Knight is also steeped in magic, he is green and lusty. Its a different magic and evil attributed to the Pentagram. The virtues belonging to the Pentangle belong to the heart in that the ones possessing these look with scorn over the magic displayed by the Pentagram.. While the farther one is from the Pentangle the more power imbued by the Pentagram over the elements: Air, Water, Fire, Earth. Though the elements are also used well, waters cleanse for example. This iS my idea.
 
Last edited:
Against the seven vices of the pentagram, lust, wrath, pride, gluttony, etc, Tolkien advises Gawain's pentangle; friendship, courtesy, chastity, etc... :)
 
Q.E.D. ... Not so actually, I discovered something new regarding Tom Bombadi who was the first and the eldest and whose power "...is in the earth itself. And yet we see that Sauron can torture and destroy the very hills." Galdor says this at The Council of Elrond on Iarwain who being the first would be the last to fall. I re-read your quote and explanation on Morgoth and his power in Middle Earth, he may have had power over Bombadil unlike Sauron though for Sauron Galdor said that he could torture the hills. Bombadil and wife have or draw power from the positive aspects of nature, such as the rejuvination and the freshness of Spring. However, on all the things I have said before together with pentagram and the elements I should quote the following also from, The Council of Elrond... "
 
Last edited:
Maybe as Tom Bombadil was the eldest he could have been placed in middle earth to counter Morgoths deathly influence and hurt on the earth. A sort of healer though not exactly keeping things in balance as for that there was Manwe and co. Earlyer i mentioned that Bombadil and wife draw power from nature, they might not draw any power after all, they could be guardians or healers, tom that is.
 
Last edited:
Properly speaking, the map of Erebor shows six “points”, two of them pointing west, where the secret door in the little alcove above led down to Smaug’s lair. (The two spurs appear to be pointing south, but remember, East was “up” in Dwarven maps, while North is “up” for our real-world maps. East is also “up” in real-world medieval maps.)

More like a five-pointed star is Númenor. (It looks to me like a man with bag over his head running to the left.) Perhaps there is some vague similarity to the Lonely Mountain, especially since Meneltarma, the volcano at the center of the island and that was shaped like the island , had a little valley in the south, Noirinan, where the Kings of Númenor were buried. Since South is “down” on the map of Númenor, and West is “down” on Thrór’s map, both mountains have something interesting on the “down” side of them on the maps. (The Kings of Gondor were buried in Rath Dínen on the south side of Mindolluin. Come to think of it, though, I think Elves drew maps with the West as “up”; while Men drew maps with East as “up”. Or maybe Dúnedain drew maps like Elves. Tolkien actually made notes on it, but I think I remember they conflict.)

If you’ve ever drawn lots and lots of imaginative maps – for D&D or another game, a story (as Tolkien did), or just for fun – you’ll probably find you use some shapes over and over. At some point, it becomes tiresome. Tolkien drafted his son Christopher (CJRT; his father was JRRT) into drawing his maps, and Christopher Tolkien’s maps were those originally published in the Lord of the Rings. I doubt there was any mystical symbolism in Tolkien’s maps: CJRT discusses them and their development at length in History of Middle-earth, where he published several developmental and intermediate versions leading to the final maps.

There are also preliminary and intermediate versions of the Lonely Mountain that have been published. Douglas Anderson as editor published one in the color plates of The Annotated Hobbit. In that one, North is “up”, and the Lonely Mountain very clearly and definitely shows six “arms”, not five.


Rath Dínen is on the Eastern slope of Mindolluin. And technically it isn't on Mindolluin proper, but on the saddle between Mindolluin and the hill upon which Minas Anor/Tirith was built.


And I would not be so quick as to dismiss any significance to Tolkien's maps. There are a great many Symbolic things within them.

But I don't think that the shape of Erebor is one of them, only it's location, and the orientation of the map.

MB
 
I just found this quote, Unfinished Tales, A Description Of The Island Of Numenor ... pg 165... The land of Numenor resembled in outline a five-pointed star, or pentangle..." there he likens the island to a pentangle and not a pentagram, for me this proves all that i have said and its a good thing to find that numbers can have double meanings in this case he focused on good virtues, ie friendship etc...case closed in my opinion at least.
 
I think it's very plausible, maybe not intentionally given the fact that Tolkien was in fact a very religious man. I find the idea intriguing though, and I like it. The idea of Earth, win, fire and water has always played some part in fiction. Mostly, because of the lore behind the elements and Tolkien was very much intrigued by the Arthurian lore and legends. And that did involve elements of both Paganism and Christianity. Morgan Le Fay, represented the fay (Fearie folk) or Pagans in the Arthurian myths. And Arthur represented the newly established religion of Christianity, in England, meant to unite the English peoples.

Knowing this is important to your idea because it implies that Tolkien knew of the Pagan religion, which is not far fetched as he was fascinated by history and language. And the very image of the Elvish are an example of what the Fay or Fairy folk in the old lore of England and Wales and so on.

And the whole notion of the hero's journey is apart of this idea. In the old myths and legends of England, like Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Tales of which Tolkien was heavily influenced by.
 

Today's events

Latest posts

Back
Top