Of 🧙Saruman and 👁️Sauron.......

[redline2200]

Assuming that the One Ring was never created, who would be more powerful, Saruman or Sauron? I know they are both of the Maiar but is the only reason Sauron is more powerful than Saruman because of the ring?

 

[Celebthôl]

partly but partly not, Sauron would still be powerfuller than Saruman because he was second in command of Morgoths army/the dark side, in morgoths army you dont become high ranking because your wise you have to be powerful, also even Gandalf in his new colour could not have beaten Sauron, (i like to think that Gandalf was more powerful as the white than Saruman ever was)!

Thôl

 

[Ithrynluin]

I'd go with Sauron. He received much knowledge and power from Morgoth...but he was also mighty to begin with...one of the greatest Maiar I daresay.

 

[G.T.Grey]

Yes, Sauron, by far. If this isn't blatently obvious from LOTR, Tolkien effectively confirms it in letters when speaking of the istari. He says that they were maiar, like Sauron, but of a much lesser order.

The A-list maiar were the likes of Eonwe, Osse, Sauron and Melian.

 

[Manwë Súlimo]

I also say that Sauron would be more powerfull. One being that he is one of the most powerfull of the Maiar, and two because that the Maiar sent from the west were of a lesser order so as to not try to overpower the wills of the Free Peoples with any display of might. And also in taking on the form of men there wisdom and power were dimed so in just that aspect Sarumans power would not be enough.

 

[Anamatar IV]

Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more
dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive
before the seat of the Dark Lord

I think this shows that Sauron was more dangerous than Gandalf in his white arraynment and Gandalf cast Saruman from the order and its ben said that Gandalf was more powerful. So as it works its way out Sauron comes on top

 

[Maeglin]

Well didn't a few of the Valar send their own Istari over? They sent who seemed to relate with them. I think that Sauron is Melkor's maia, he just happened to come with him to Middle Earth and learn all of his ways and was evil just like him. And Melkor was the most powerful of the Valar, so I think it makes sense that Sauron would be the most powerful of all the Maia. Just a theory though.

 

[Khamul]

Wouldn't call it completely accurate, but it has a few points you could use.

Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, of Gorthaur the Cruel

The servant bit would be true.

In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part.

He was definately powerful.
Eonwe, at least, is said to be the greatest in arms on Arda. Sauron, on the other hand, cannot make a claim close to this. Another way of looking at it might be this. The power of the Maia may have something to do with the Vala they serve. Eonwe is a servant of the Eldar King, Manwe. Sauron, some might think to be equal since he served Melkor(who's coeval with Manwe). But we must remember that Sauron was originally a servant of Aule.

 

[Ithrynluin]

In his beginnings, Sauron was a Maia of Aulë the Smith, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. He was drawn to Melkor's splendour and become his most trusted and mightiest servant (which puts him even before Gothmog the chief Balrog). However, I doubt that Sauron's power (and Saruman's for that matter) was in battle as such.

 

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

I think Sauron would definitely be stronger than Saruman. But if Saruman would have teamed up with Gandalf... well Gandalf would never do that so we don't have to worry about that! But if they did... Sauron would be a very unhappy Maia right now

 

[Khamul]

Gandalf would have gladly had Saruman on his side, before he knew of his corruption.

 

[redline2200]

Thanks for the answers everyone

 

[Arvedui]

Among those of his [Morgoth's] servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aulë, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morghoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.

I would definately go for Sauron, especially as I am able to remember that Saruman was sent to ME to help the free people to counter Sauron, after the One Ring was made...

 

[BlackCaptain]

I would say Sauron... After all, 5 wizards were sent to destroy 1 Maia. That says something

 

[Turin]

I think if the ring was never created, then the wizards wouldn't have come to ME. But I think Sauron would be the most powerful.

 

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by Khamul
He was definately powerful.
Eonwe, at least, is said to be the greatest in arms on Arda. Sauron, on the other hand, cannot make a claim close to this. Another way of looking at it might be this. The power of the Maia may have something to do with the Vala they serve. Eonwe is a servant of the Eldar King, Manwe. Sauron, some might think to be equal since he served Melkor(who's coeval with Manwe). But we must remember that Sauron was originally a servant of Aule.

But Gandalf was a Maia of Manwë, and he wasnt as powerful as Sauron

Originally posted by BlackCaptain
I would say Sauron... After all, 5 wizards were sent to destroy 1 Maia. That says something [/B]

But They were not allowed to contend his power with their own, my guess is that either the Valar knew that some of the Wizards would fail in their task and so they sent more than 1 or 2, or there were more sent so they could make special bonds with each of the races and have a wizard for each race - i.e. Gandalf for Men, Saruman for Elves, Alatar for Dwarves - or somthing to that nature, but as it turned out Gandalf did all the work anyway.
Also there were only supposed to be 3 Wizards sent to ME, (Gandalf, Saruman and Alatar - Pollando was brought as a friend by Alatar, and Radagast was added by Yavanna to watch the animals and trees - if i remember correctly).

 

[BlackCaptain]

But how often did you see Sauron's power in use? It's all just commandtion thru fear I would think. Stong leadership qualities, is what got Sauron so far in the WotR. And all the Istari did (Which we see thru examples of Gandalf's works) was command and encourage people thru hope and such.

 

[Grond]

Let's not forget that good ole Sauron was bestest by a dog and a girl.

from The Silmarillion, Of Beren and Luthien
But no wizardry not spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow, Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by the throat and pinned him down. Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf the serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly. Ere his foul spirit left its dark house, Lúthien came to him, and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking back to Morgoth; and she said: 'There everlastingly thy naked self shall endure the torment of his scorn, pierced by his eyes, unless thou yield to me the mastery of thy tower.'

I never was very impressed with Sauron myself. My boss was always the apple of my eye, so to speak.

 

[Glomund]

It may be true that Sauron was beaten by a dog and a girl, but Huan was not a normal dog, and Luthien later made big, bad, emotionless Mandos cry so we can't hold that against Sauron. Sauron obviously had more power than Saruman, but of what type? Both were "of the people of Aule" so they should have had similar types of power, and this is shown by there ring making abilities. My question about the two is how they got other powers Sauron had the ability to dominate others mentally and to lie and decieve, while Saruman also had power over others with his voice, but how would followers of the Valar of the craftsman of the Valar come by this? In the Silmarillian, it says that he had lordship over all the substances of Arda, so maybe people were of this substance. Anyone got any better reasons?

 

[Feanorian]

In the Silmarillian, it says that he had lordship over all the substances of Arda, so maybe people were of this substance. Anyone got any better reasons?

I dont have better reasons but this strikes another question of mine. Why didnt Sauron have more success with the Dwarves? They were created from earthly substances and were of Aule, and if Sauron knew some of Aule's mind which he would have had to to be his pupil. It seems he would be able to persuade them to his assistance and yet they never really bend to his or Morogth's will. In my mind it would make more sense for the Dwarves to follow Sauron then the Wild Men but I guess the Dwarves werent able to be scared into submission. Any thoughts?