Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin...

[Turgon]

Couldn't find anything else about Thorondor's fate... Maybe he was mortal, or else slain during the War of Wrath (although that is a something of a wild surmise!?!)

 

[Camille]

coulnt find anything about him either but maybe you are right an he was mortal.

 

[Elfarmari]

I was just thinking about this topic again, so I'm resurrecting the thread.

Ulmo told Turgon he should leave Gondolin; so I'm sure he saw a hopeful end (i.e., they don't all die). Perhaps they could have set sail with the silmaril (after Earendil?) Or Ulmo could have guided them to Tol Eressea? Or maybe Ulmo had another, safer refuge in mind? Does anyone have any wild speculations?

 

[Maedhros]

Well, I think that he basically told Turgon that he needed to go back to Valinor and beg for forgiveness to the Valar.
From the Book of Lost Tales

There have come to the ears of Ulmo whispers of your dwelling and your hill of vigilance against the evil of Melko, and he is glad: but his heart is wroth and the hearts of the Valar are angered who sit in the mountains of Valinor and look upon the world from the peak of Taniquetil, seeing the sorrow of the thraldom of the Noldoli and the wanderings of Men; for Melko ringeth them in the Land of Shadows beyond hills of iron. Therefore have I been brought by a secret way to bid you number your hosts and prepare for battle, for the time is ripe."

Then spake Tuor: "Nay, if thou dost not now dare greatly then will the Orcs dwell for ever and possess in the end most of the mountains of the Earth, and cease not to trouble both Elves and Men, even though by other means the Valar contrive hereafter to release the Noldoli; but if thou trust now to the Valar, though terrible the encounter, then shall the Orcs fall, and Melko's power be minished to a little thing."

It was not so much as a secret safe way, but to make Turgon see that he needed the forgiveness of the Valar so that he could save his people from the peril of Melkor.

 

[Hama]

Finally! A thread dedicated to Gondolin and Tuor, possibly my favourite place and individual, respectively, in the First Age of Middle Earth. The fall of Gondolin is one of the greatest parts of Tolkien's work, in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by Turgon
Couldn't find anything else about Thorondor's fate... So I have to surmise that...
B)He was killed by Ancalagon in the War of Wrath B]

I also wish there was more written about the War of Wrath. I mean, it was probably the greatest war of all time in Middle Earth's history. And yet we don't know who most of the key characters were in them, and who died, with the exception of some small details from the Silmarillion.

Thorondor may have gone to Valinor, being a Maia, but yes, if Gwaihir and Landroval are his descendants....hmmm... but Melian did have mortal descendants as well. Unfortunately there is a lot of details which have no written work by Tolkien gives specifics about.

Oh, about stories that are great, I would have to include the battle between the Dwarves and Orcs in the Appendix of the Lord of the Rings.

It would be great if there was such an Appendix written about the first age, so that we can know more details about how it was like to live in say, Gondolin or Nargothrond, or even Doriath. A timeline would also have been handy.

 

[Confusticated]

I am sorry that the Entire Quenta Silmarillion was not written as this story from Lost Tales. The part where Tuor wandered along the shores presented me with the most vivid imaginings I've experienced from Tolkien's writtings. The description of Ulmo was amazing. I can see every detail of him, and the shores so thoroughly that I can feel what it must have been like to be there. I was pleasantly surprise by his prophetic speaking of Earendel too. The mood set by the first portion of the story is one that I find unique among all of the Tolkien's writings I have read so far. The time that went by during Tuor's wanderings can be felt, the calm of the shores as he wandered safely along in a world full of danger and horror. He was called into it, and he went. The people of Gondolin, including The King's own daughter watching the Tower of Turgon, their king, fall as they snuck away from their ruined city...Reading this I gained a new understanding of just how great this city was....and as Turgon even said..."Great is the fall of Gondolin" causing a shudder among the people...Yes, great it was. I also realise how great Glorfindel's death was, since I see so well what the refugees had been through before he saved them. Also Ecthelion is now among my favorite Elves because of what is told of him in the story.
And I could go on and on because I just read this a couple nights ago, and once again I got more than I expected from Tolkien...When will I learn?..
PS: as far as what was asked bout how things would have Turned out if Turgon has listened to Tuor...someone else left a good quote for that.
And about the Eagles...I do not know.

 

[Turgon]

Orcrist

Okay a lot of worthy comments and spectulations are made on this forum and members here like nothing more than to argue about the deep metaphysical issues of Tolkien's work. As for me I tend to get side-tracked by the more 'trivial' elements of the good professor's work. So I hereby open the floor to the most burning question (in my mind at least) ever posed in Annals of Middle-earth. Who wielded Orcrist? Seems like a stupid question on the surface, but I'm convinced that an answer can be found.

Tolkien tells us that Glamdring was wielded by Turgon, King of Gondolin; Tolkien also tells us that Orcrist was Glamdring's mate and that both these swords were forged in Gondolin. Orcrist it is also said was a famous blade and so must have been wielded by a great hero. But who could this hero be? By process of elimination we can rule out Tuor, for he wielded Dramborleg, an axe; we can also rule out Maeglin for he wielded Anguirel, Anglachel's mate. Two other great hero's spring to mind without delving into the BoLT for more candidates - Glorfindel and Ecthelion... yet in my opinion Glorfindel is an unlikely candidate, for it's doubtful, though not impossible, that his sword would have been recovered after his fall into the abyss. This leaves us with Ecthelion - is he a possible contender? His sword, it is told, fell from his hand before he and Gothmog fell into the fountain and so would have been left for anybody to plunder - what do you think possibility or pointless speculation? Does anybody have any other candidates in mind?

Any thoughts?

 

[Maedhros]

Well you have the people of the Sable Mole, whose Maeglin was their leader, and they fought with axes two-headed like mattocks so you can discount those of his house.
You have too the Folk of the Swallow whose leader was Duilin, but they used bows, so you can discount him too.
There were also those of the Heavenly Arch, and whose leader was Egalmoth, they used swords and bows, but his sword was bent -- now none else of the Noldor bore curved swords, so you can count him out.
You have the host of the Pillar and of the Tower of Snow, who were led by Penlod. I don't think that it specifies if they used some kind of different weapons, but I would guess that they used swords.
We have also those of the Tree, led by Galdor, but they used iron-studded clubs or with slings, so you can discount him too.
You have those of the Golden Flower, whose leader was Glorfindel. I don't think it specifies that he used a sword, but from LOTR, he uses one, so I assume that he wields a sword unless I have a reference that contradicts it.
There is the People of the Fountain, whose leader is Echtelion, and he used a sword.
Those of the Harp, whose leader was Salgant, i think that if otherwise proven, he used a sword.
Then they were those folk of the Hammer of Wrath, whose leader was [Rog], and they used "great maces like hammers", sounds familiar?
There are those of the Emblem of the White Wing, whose leader was Tuor, but he used an axe.
There were also the folk of the Royal house. They stood with Turgon until the end, and since the swords were mates, I would venture to guess that it must have been used by one of Turgon's Royal House.

 

[Turgon]

Hey thanks for the research Maedhros - though you forgot to mention that Rog wielded a curved blade... The only elf to do so if I remember rightly... my first thought on this matter was that the sword could have belonged to Aredhel, as sister to Turgon it was quite possible that Orcrist could have been forged for her use, and it would not be totally out of character her to wield a sword, she was something of an amazon after all. But on reflection Aredhel did nothing to earn the fame which Orcrist later carried, and died some years before the Fall of Gondolin. I do however believe that as mate to Glamdring, Turgon's sword, Orcrist would have been wielded by somebody of great consequence (though perhaps my Ecthelion theory is rather romantic... it does appeal to me!)

Perhaps you are right though, Orcrist could have been wielded by an unnamed captain of Turgon's guard... one must presume that the swords were looted from more or less the same place (or a least by the same person/persons) for them to have remained together as a pair after the Fall... so at a guess it must have been somebody who made their stand in the Courtyard of the King... but that still doesn't rule Ecthelion out... hehe... the truth is out there!

On another note - is it possible that Maeglin could have forged Glamdring and Orcrist? He was a good smith, I'm sure as Eöl's son he would have learnt much at father's knee... again speculative... but not entirely impossible?

 

[Maedhros]

On another note - is it possible that Maeglin could have forged Glamdring and Orcrist? He was a good smith, I'm sure as Eöl's son he would have learnt much at father's knee... again speculative... but not entirely impossible?

Who can truly say? From what I have read from the The Fall of Gondolin, I gather that Maeglin was the best smith (one of the best) in Gondolin, and he was in favour with the King, his uncle, so it would not surprise me that he could have made them. Althought those of his house (Mole), used axes rather than swords.