Reasons to Hate the Rings of Power TV Series...

[Halasían]

I've been around the webs and reading why people already hate this new Rings of Power series. all I can say is the haters are really out in force with these latest new reveals. One thing I noted in the various places the posters and first look articles were posted on fecebook (IMDB has some of the most horrid comments) reddit, and on some forums is a lot of the ones who hate this so bad think PJ did an awesome job presenting Lord of the Rings. They didn’t mind the many wholesale changes made to that complete book story, saying ‘it needed to be done to appeal to the masses’, yet with this their main reasons for their hatred appears to be a mix of these:

A. I hate it because it is being made by Amazon.
B. Bezos made mention of Game of Thrones when he bought the rights, so it is going to be Game of Thrones.
C. It’s revisionist ‘woke’ BS (because it isn’t an all-white cast)
D. They are making stuff up that isn’t in the source material (original characters and storylines, tweaking canon characters, and such).
E. They didn’t use the same actors that PJ did, so it’s crap.
F. It doesn’t matter if the Tolkien Estate is actively involved. They only care about money, not Tolkien’s legacy after Christopher died, so it will be crap.

That is just to name a few I’ve come across. Any more reasons given?

 

[Ealdwyn]

How about a pair of showrunners who have never in their lives produced so much as a short story, who now think they can "come up with the novel Tolkien never wrote". So incredibly arrogant. This was Tolkien's life's work. An Oxford professor with a vast amount of knowledge of the historical sources he was drawing from, as well as his oen personal dreams and experiences - which includes living through two world wars.

Being inspired by Tolkien's world is one thing - there is even that "other minds and hands" quote to support it. Fan art/ fan fiction can be great. But it's unheard of for a fan to believe they could write a novel that Tolkien probably intended to write but didn't.

For Amazon writers to think that they specifically could replace Tolkien's own writing on the 2nd Age is a level of delusional self-confidence I can't quite get my head around.

One more thing; production values
Whatever we may think of PJs movies, a lot of what made those movies successful was the production values. I mean, I hate what they did to the story/characters, but there's so much to love in the cinematography, the costumes, the sets, the music, the sheer amount of love and attention to detail that was put into it is staggering. If you've seen the 'making of' documentaries that came with the extended editions then you know what I'm talking about. Those films felt like they were made by thousands of people who loved what they did.

I'm really not seeing that same love in what I've seen and heard of ROP so far. It's just one more cash cow for Bezos.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Any more reasons given?

G. "Not true to the movies"

(I haven't actually seen this yet, but I don't doubt it's out there).

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

For Amazon writers to think that they specifically could replace Tolkien's own writing

Isn't that exactly what PJ &Co. thought? That was certainly my impression.

 

[Olorgando]

I'm currently re-reading (after having taken a time-out to read the collection of original letters that Mark Twain wrote during his 1867 trip to places later to be found - mostly - in his 1869 book "The Innocents Abroad") Jason Fisher's compilation (as editor and contributor) "Tolkien and the Study of His Sources".
With all of their divergent viewpoints and specific topics, it seems to me that all contributors agree that whatever sources may be found for JRRT's writings, almost certainly no writer ever digested his sources as thoroughly. Yes, you can find parts of the Kalevala's (and his own) "Story of Kullervo" in the "Narn" and other versions of "The Children of Húrin". "Beowulf" in "The Hobbit". Etc ad nauseam. Bits! JRRT did a lot of reading (a lot of which might surprise some people); thought about some of it; (consciously) forgot some of it; and also, not so rarely with "revered" sources, decided "I can do this better."
JRRT was mostly right in his attempts at what he saw as improvement (he also filled in gaps as a favorite pastime). Everything I have come across where others, in whatever medium, have thought they could do "better than Tolkien", has basically been a pathetic disaster.

I mentioned above that JRRT thoroughly digested his sources. No time for that in this unthinking "copy 'n' paste" era. My guess the "sources" will be PJ's six films, GoT - and stuff vaguely resembling both about which I am blissfully ignorant. Adjust costumes and (perhaps) prosthetics - is there a faster way to a script-writing shortcut?

 

[Uminya]

C. It’s revisionist ‘woke’ BS (because it isn’t an all-white cast)

Of all the reasons to dislike it, this one is the most despicable. I stumbled across some absolutely vile facebook comments regarding the photo of a black actress playing a dwarf.

All the other reasons are matters of taste or pettiness, but good grief.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Welcome back to the forum, Uminya! 😊

 

[Aldarion]

Of all the reasons to dislike it, this one is the most despicable. I stumbled across some absolutely vile facebook comments regarding the photo of a black actress playing a dwarf.

All the other reasons are matters of taste or pettiness, but good grief.

Middle Earth was a medieval society, and thus not very "diverse". I do not see what is so despicable about disliking forced political propaganda.

 

[Olorgando]

C. It’s revisionist ‘woke’ BS (because it isn’t an all-white cast)

Of all the reasons to dislike it, this one is the most despicable. I stumbled across some absolutely vile facebook comments regarding the photo of a black actress playing a dwarf.
All the other reasons are matters of taste or pettiness, but good grief.

Middle Earth was a medieval society, and thus not very "diverse". I do not see what is so despicable about disliking forced political propaganda.

Despicable, I don't doubt it (Facebook is on my "ain't happenin'" list). It's just an ugly fact of life that the Internet has gigantic cesspits full of mental diarrhea.
But as to Amazon dispensing "forced political propaganda", I think Ealdwyn puts what Amazon does (and not just with RoP) into perspective in this post:

https://thetolkien.forum/threads/th...ngs-of-power-teaser-trailer.30117/post-549347

 

[Ealdwyn]

Middle Earth was a medieval society, and thus not very "diverse". I do not see what is so despicable about disliking forced political propaganda.

Where is your evidence that medieval societies were not diverse? It's white supremacist propaganda that everyone in Europe was white at that time.

Here's some links that might help you:
Race and racism in the Middle Ages https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-racism-middle-ages-toc/
People of colour in European art https://twitter.com/medievalpoc?lang=en
An article on fascist groups linking their hate to medievalism https://psmag.com/education/nazis-love-taylor-swift-and-also-the-crusades

 

[AaronSecret]

Where is your evidence that medieval societies were not diverse? It's white supremacist propaganda that everyone in Europe was white at that time.

Here's some links that might help you:
Race and racism in the Middle Ages https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-racism-middle-ages-toc/
People of colour in European art https://twitter.com/medievalpoc?lang=en
An article on fascist groups linking their hate to medievalism https://psmag.com/education/nazis-love-taylor-swift-and-also-the-crusades

Yes but Tolkien's world is not our Own medieval age.

 

[Aldarion]

Where is your evidence that medieval societies were not diverse? It's white supremacist propaganda that everyone in Europe was white at that time.

Here's some links that might help you:
Race and racism in the Middle Ages https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-racism-middle-ages-toc/
People of colour in European art https://twitter.com/medieval
An article on fascist groups linking their hate to medievalism https://psmag.com/education/nazis-love-taylor-swift-and-also-the-crusades

Firstly, you are talking about specific examples. Trade ports were always diverse (look at Constantinople) because, well, trade ports. But that does not mean same applied to society at large. Majority of population lived in villages, and even large cities were not diverse if they were not trade ports. It was simple question of transportation and of motivation: with the exception of trade ports, people had no motivation to move elsewhere, nor was transportation available to do so.

Secondly, there is no evidence of Tolkien intending Middle Earth to be diverse on a local level. So even if what you wrote above is true, forcing diversity is still propaganda. And it doesn't make sense either. Majority of Harad was under Sauron's rule. Why, and how, would they be moving to Gondor? Do we have any evidence of blooming long-distance trade with Far Harad that would have led to appearance of racially diverse communities?

 

[Ealdwyn]

So let me get this right....

Aldarion is claiming that Tolkien shouldn't be diverse because it should reflect the *alleged* non-diversity of medieval Europe.
AaronSecret is claiming that Tolkien shouldn't be diverse because it shouldn't reflect the diversity of real-life medieval Europe.

You guys are contradicting each other. You need to decide which argument you're going with and stick to it.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

I suggest that some of us need to re-read the Rules thread. The point of this section of the forums is to discuss the Amazon tv series and its content, not politics, not your like or dislike of diversity, and not bizarro theories about Tolkien's books being banned and the coming of the antichrist. You can still buy Mein Kampf from Amazon so I HIGHLY doubt they're going to ever ban anything by J.R.R. Tolkien because of a TV show. If you want to argue and discuss diversity and why you think it's wrong or right, do it by pm or on another forum.