👁️Sauron and Melkor...

[Centin]

Is it possible that Sauron was still in Melkor's service during the War of the Ring, and up until his death?

 

[Ragnarok]

Wasnt Melkor destroyed long before that? Too bad, Melkor was such a bad @ss dude! Swingin' Grond like it aint no thang! Hehe

 

[Centin]

Melkor

I'm pretty sure he was never destroyed. He was 'chained' and imprisoned up and through the third age.

 

[The Phony Pope]

Melkor was chained and put into the void

 

[The Phony Pope]

Who is more powerful?

Who do you think is more powerful, Morgoth after he destroyed the trees in Valinor, or Sauron before he got the ring?

I think Morgoth is, but what do you think?

 

[Ithrynluin]

Morgoth was more powerful at the time you are referring to. He could still change his shape (though he was soon to lose that power forever) and he still had a great part of his power, though he would later scatter it into Arda and into his minions.

As the First Age progressed, Morgoth's power diminished and Sauron was greater than him in comparison.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Well... Sauron was in service to Morgoth for all of his existance, even when he was destroyed (not killed... Maia can't die). Melkor was cast into the void... Which means he was incapasitated permanantly. It was all up to Sauron then... He was all alone.

 

[Celebthôl]

HAH yeah and he really blew that by makin a ring real smooth Sauron

 

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Celebthôl
HAH yeah and he really blew that by makin a ring real smooth Sauron

But there was a big chance of success, so it wasn't that unwise to make the ring. And it would really enhance his power.

 

[Arvedui]

I don't know...
I got this Gold ring from my wife some 9 years ago. It has inscriptions on it and all.

But it certainly hasn't enhanced MY powers. On the contrary....

 

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
But there was a big chance of success, so it wasn't that unwise to make the ring. And it would really enhance his power.

LOL no i wasnt being serious, i was just messing, i mean he had an awesome ammount of power, and still lost etc i was just looking at it in the most basic term...

 

[HelplessModAddi]

Is it possible that Sauron was still in Melkor's service during the War of the Ring, and up until his death?

Melkor is banished, but he is far from powerless. The world is his ring. He exerts his force on it, and his will moves all beings to thwart the will of the Valar. In a way he is more dangerous in the Third Age than in the First, because his plots cannot be pinned to a single empire or throne. Of course Sauron would try to convince himself he was working for himself, but he has to know he is just a tool. Consider these words of Gandalf:

"....for Sauron himself is but a servant or emissary...

 

[Maerbenn]

Position of Sauron

From letter #183 (a rewriting at some later date of an earlier version, now lost, which was in all probability written in 1956):

Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world.

From a footnote to this passage:

When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned.

 

[ely]

But...

...who was more powerful, Morgoth after he destroyed the trees in Valinor, or Sauron when he already had the Ring?

 

[Inderjit S]

Morgoth.

 

[Lantarion]

Ooh, spam alert, spam alert!!
*a troop of Mods fall through the ceiling, suspended by iron wires on a helicopter, and neutralize the naughty Inder*


But yeah, it's true. Melkor was arguably the most powerful of all of the Valar, and therefore of all the Ainur (because in the Sil it is said that all of the more powerful Ainur went into Arda, roughly); Sauron, although incredibly powerful with the enhancing Ring, was no match for a Avala of such considerable power.

 

[HelplessModAddi]

Actually, Sauron at the height of his Second Age power was "relatively" more powerful than Morgoth in the First Age - meaning that he had conquered more land, enslaved more people, and his enemies had less chance of defeating him. But if the two empires were pitted against one another, Sauron would get his rear whooped.

 

[Beleg]

A new question

This all leads me to another Question,

We know that even at the Height of his power in second age, Sauron, armywise proved no match for the Numenoreans.
So do you think that Numenorean's at the height of their power, would have been any match to Morgoth?

Sorry for the robbing the thread like this, but I don't feel that the querry is great enough to warrant a seperate thread.

 

[BlackCaptain]

We shall never know... It depends if it was when they were the greedy snobs or the royal noble-men. I'm thinking they couldn't do it. Not even all of the Noldor could do it...

 

[HelplessModAddi]

Well, the Numenoreans would have had the advantage of coming to sea, which Morgoth would have a hard time conquering. Any ships Morgoth tried to build would not be any match for the Numenoreans ship craft. On the other hand, Morgoth would still have all his Balrogs, and Dragons, and rapid-spawning Orcs, and lets not forget the natural defense provided by the many mountains surrounding his abode. I'm thinking it would probably be a long, long war of attrition, pretty much a stalemate. Morgoth would not be able to "descend" upon Numenor like he could upon Beleriand. If you analyze the geography of Beleriand, you realize that the Noldor, once Morgoth conquered some of the higlands, were extremely disadvantaged as far as natural defenses went. Yeah, they had Dor-lomin and the like for a while, but Morgoth had Thangorodrim and the Iron Mountains in the entire war.