Why would that be a topic?
To borrow your phrase, "we know" she was capable, because
Tolkien said she fought.
She fought at Alqualonde.
That would be her youth in the
Undying Lands, Which is what the quote seems to be referring too...
And the
flight of the Noldor took place in the Undying Lands.
The why she fought was to defend her mother's kin from the Feanoreans.
That is the only time I know of that Tolkien says elf-women will fight, though tying it in with them abstaining from war.
Tolkien said they typically do in "dire straights", which is slightly different. I never said it is canon, per se (that can be debated). Actually, I am very hesitant to call anything "canon" when it comes to
Galadriel and
Celeborn outside of the text of
The Lord of the Rings. However, the topic of discussion was the
Hobbit films. I don't think
Dol Guldur should even have been in it. My point was an alternative to what was done there that did not seem to me quite so absurd. Granted, that was a dire straight to be sure, and I doubt Galadriel participated in active warfare often. My point is that it is coupled with remarks such as her being "the only woman of the
Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes" and "the fairest lady of the
house of Finwë and the most valiant" and even the "Amazon disposition" thing. All this added together, coupled with the fact that Tolkien did have shield-maidens in his lore, makes it seem to me more likely that she was an exception. This is not
proof, but since any explanation of Galadriel's lore is more or less an interpretation, I am alright with that.
No, there is an exception, Aredhel, to elf-women abstaining from hunting. As Tolkien specifically noted Aredhel as loving to hunt. Tolkien does not note any elf-women going to war (as it is elf-men who bear arms at need, and
Elves thought warrior-women strange when they became aware of the practice by the folk of Haleth).
Which is my point. So if we know there are some exceptions, it does seem plausible to me that
maybe, just
maybe, the cousin of that exception, with a similar temperament, who happens to be
the greatest or the second greatest of the Noldor who ever lived, whom we know to be physically a match for all the Elven-men, just
might in some of the
thousands of years where we know almost nothing about her doings, possibly willingly fought in a battle or two. That said, I would be willing to use the term "shield-maiden", if you prefer, as I doubt she was a professional soldier. As for the House of Haleth, I know it seemed strange to the Elves that Amazons were normal among them, but I don't think that rules out one very rare and powerful exception necessarily.
"I think it is true that I owe much of this character to Christian and Catholic teaching and imagination about Mary, but actually Galadriel was a penitent: in her youth a leader in the rebellion against the
Valar (the angelic guardians). At the end of the
First Age she proudly refused forgiveness or permission to return."
Letter 320
Thank you for the quote. I agree with what is said there.
The "Amazon disposition" referring back to her youth in
Aman, and related to her taking part in athletic
events. No mention of war, there was none in Aman.
Absent Tolkien saying so, what he thought is unknown. To borrow your phrase again, "we know" his thoughts on elf-women as warriors, they abstain from war, though they will fight in defence, this in distinction to elf-men who bear arms at need.
I know that, but as the Amazons were women-warriors, it seems to me notable that Tolkien used the term and did not specify otherwise, especially considering that he used the word "Amazon" in the traditional sense to reference the House of Haleth. With that in mind, if I had to guess, it was not too far from his mind or at least would not be too greatly against the character.
I provided an explanation of what you seems to mean:
"You seem to mean by "fighter" someone who can and does fight (taking up arms in physical combat), but is not a soldier (though Tolkien seems to use 'warrior' and soldier' interchangeably ("Ohtar 'warrior, soldier' (UT, Disaster of...), "ndākō warrior, soldier" (LR, Etymolgies)). And amazons were soldiers (per the first definition provided above "1 (in ancient Greek stories) a woman from a group of female warriors (= soldiers)")."
If you think we are having language trouble, then perhaps you should explain your language.
Basically, I suspect that she was probably more of a fighter or shield-maiden than other Elf-women, or at least
something of an exception to the rule, similar to Aredhel in hunting. I do not presume to be more specific, however, because Tolkien was not.
And continued the discussion.
Yes, I did respond to this once you continued the discussion here, but I never meant to start it so thoroughly. But again, I was just trying to find an alternative to a bad decision in the
Hobbit films that seemed to me slightly less of a bad idea. If you would like this conversation to end, I do not have to continue my replies.
There is no evidence of
Elrond,
Cirdan or Galadriel being at Dol Guldur.
Except for the fact that Tolkien said
the White Council was there rather than "the wizard part of the White Council". I did not know this was controversial.
Casting out of Elrond?
Do you mean
Sauron?
Yes, I did mean that. Thank you.
Because
Gandalf attributes that to
Saruman and his devices.
I did not deny that. Saruman's power, I am sure, was the main moving factor. All I said was that the White Council was present, and Galadriel, Cirdan, and Elrond were part of the White Council. Otherwise, I think Tolkien or Gandalf would be disingenuous by not saying "Saruman and I" or "a part of the White Council". "The White Council" was the term used. Galadriel, Elrond, and
Círdan were part of the White Council. Therefore, they took part in the meeting of the White Council in T.A. 2941.
No longer a "we know" but a suspicion.
It seems to me like more of deductive logic to be honest.
Again,
Radagast not named as a member of the White Council, not said to be at Dol Guldur.
You agree that Celeborn and
Glorfindel were probably involved in what exactly?
Fair enough about Radagast, although he was their ally. Chances are, Celeborn and Glorfindel were members of the White Council as well, but this is nowhere stated.
Banishing someone is a punishment.
It can be, but it isn't a punishment when it is not done to prevent someone from conquering the entire world. As I said, Tolkien was a Catholic. The Catholic Church distinguishes retributive punishment from self-defense. To put it another way, they were banishing Sauron from a place he had no right to be. We see examples of punishment in the lore such as individual amounts of time Elves have to stay in
Mandos before they are reembodied, which likely reflects Tolkien's view on purgatory or "temporal punishment". Obviously, Tolkien illustrates this idea more clearly in
Leaf by Niggle. But even if you're not Christian, that is literally not what the word "punishment" means. Punishment entails retribution for some offense, generally because it is justly due to such a person and possibly also to teach this person a lesson. So, it is a punishment, for instance, if I am a judge and condemn someone to a certain amount of time in prison or the death penalty. It is not a punishment, however, if I were to hear that a sniper is about to kill my friend and, in turn, I would go and kill him because it was the only way to save my friend. The latter is closest, according to my understanding, to what happened in Dol Guldur.
Besides, the topic of discussion was technically the Peter Jackson movies here (I was trying to find something that seemed better than
Tauriel and anything short of John Boorman's Galadriel would be better than Tauriel; once again, I don't think the White Council should have been in the movies in the first place). Anyway, Galadriel and Elrond were both present at Dol Guldur in the movies and Elrond took up arms. So, there is that.