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The name Rohan

elffriend

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It is well documented that Tolkien was interested in the Myths of the Norse people especially Brumwolf. I am interested in Celtic Mythology, and thought that even though it is not documented maybe Tolkien got the word Rohan from Celtic mythology, the reason i suggest this is, the Celtic Goddess of horses was called Rhiannon, the people of Rohan were the horse lords,
If you take away i, and 2n's you are left with rhano, if you move the o to between the r and the h you then have ROHAN.
Any body else got any thoughts on this
 
Well I can say the word Rohan comes from Rochand 'land of horses' which is Sindarin. You can find this in the appendix to The Silmarillion.

The Noldorin (which was the language that became Sindarin) 'roch' that is 'horse' and Quenya 'rokko' are given in the etymologies written in the late 1930s, to which additions where made by Tolkien as he wrote LotR and new words came about. I was wondering if 'rokko' and especially 'roch' could perhaps be some of those additions. I am still not sure as I can not find the first usage in Tolkien's writings of a word containing 'roch'. The reason I am trying to find that first word using 'roch' is to see if it existed before 'Rohan' in LotR... in other words if Rohan from elvish Rochand was perhaps an after explaination, meaning that Tolkien might have originally got 'Rohan' some way other than from Sindarin Rochand... I'll try to do a little more hunting, or just wait for someone who knows to answer. ;)

But anyhow, Rohan from Sindarin Rochand is the internal explaination.


elffriend, if it is okay with you I'd suggest asking a moderator to move this thread to the languages forum as people who know a lot about them will surely see it there.
 
Tolkien did comment on Rohan

'Rohan is a famous name, from Brittany, borne by an ancient proud and powerful family. I was aware of this, and liked its shape; but I had also (long before) invented the Elvish horse-word, and saw how Rohan could be accommodated to the linguistic situation as a late Sindarin name of the Mark (previously called Calenarðon 'the (great) green region') after its occupation by horseman. Nothing in the history of Brittany will throw any light on the Eorlingas. Incidentally the ending -and (an), -end (en) in land-names no doubt owes something to such (romantic and other) names as Broceliand(e), but is perfectly in keeping with an already devised structure of primitive (common) Elvish (C. E.), or it would not have been used. ...'

JRRT (from a letter)
 
Hmm, maybe Tolkien got some of the Rohan ideas from the Huns maybe? I've seen alot of paralells with the Rohirrim and the Huns. But anyway, where the Celts that much into cavalry and horses? Didn't seem like it but I'm probably way off.:rolleyes:
 
The British Celts were very good with horses. The Uffington White Horse is one of our most impressive ancient sites. However, whether Rhiannon represented a goddess is a matter of speculation. All we really know about her is that in the Mabinogion she appears as a mysterious woman of the Otherworld. Epona is a British horse goddess, Rhiannon is probably a representation of sovereignty. In Welsh, Rhiannon means simply "maiden" and has no connection with horses at all.

There is very little Celtic about the Rohirrim. They are far more Anglo-Saxon.

Neneithel
 
Éomond posted:
But anyway, where the Celts that much into cavalry and horses? Didn't seem like it but I'm probably way off.
Religious traditions involving horses pervade the traditions of peoples speaking Indo-European languages, perhaps because the original speakers of Proto-Indo-European were a horse breeding people of the steppe. The horse-pulled chariot seems to have been their invention and accompanied them into India, the Middle-east, Greece and Italy.

One theory is that it was the horse-chariot that led to the spread of Indo-Eureopean conquerors that spread the Indo-European language so far. Others disagree, dating the spread of Indo-European languages much earlier.

As horses were bred to be larger in size, people began to regularly ride on horses instead of using horse-drawn chariots.

But there was generally an increased dependance of foot soliders.

However in Britain horse-drawn chariots were still used by the Celtic speaking peoples at the time of the Roman invasion. Irish tradition pictures horse chariots during the same period.

The Goths were formidable cavalrymen, and probably in part inspired Tolkien’s Rohirrim, though he represents the language of the Rohirrim by Old English and not by Gothic. (The historic Old English seem not to have been great horsemen.)

There is nothing particularly Celtic about the Rohirrim.

Neneithel posted:
However, whether Rhiannon represented a goddess is a matter of speculation. All we really know about her is that in the Mabinogion she appears as a mysterious woman of the Otherworld. Epona is a British horse goddess, Rhiannon is probably a representation of sovereignty. In Welsh, Rhiannon means simply "maiden" and has no connection with horses at all.
The site Y Geiriadur Gweol: gives the etymology of Rhiannon as:
(rhian, variant of rhiain = maiden) + (-on, suffix often found in names of deities)
. However a surmised Gaulish Rigatona ‘Queen-great’ also fits perfectly. But neither name contains anything referring to ‘horse’.

The supposed connection with Epona (a name which means ‘mare’ comes about because Epona is a goddess of horses, many depictions of Epona show her followed by three birds and she is sometimes shown followed by a dog.

Rhiannon first appears mounted on a horse, her son is stolen by a supernatural being who also has been stealing colts and she is later given the punishment of waiting by the horse block to carry any guest to the court into the court on her back as though she were a mare.

The birds of Rhiannon that wake the dead and lull the living the sleep are mentioned in the medieval Welsh tale ‘Culhwch and Olwen’.

When Rhiannon’s son is stolen, her women kill some puppies and smear Rhiannon’s face with blood to convince all that Rhiannon has killed and eaten her child.

Also the box or cornucopia the Epona sometimes bears may be cognate with Rhiannon’s bag that cannot be filled.

See http://www.druidry.org/obod/deities/epona.html.

So identity of Epona and Rhiannon is quite likely, but as you point out, not actually proved.

Even if Epona and Rhiannon are not exactly the same, they seem to share features. But then many gods and goddesses share features with one another.

There is too much silliness in books and on the web about identifying various gods and goddesses with one another, often ones about which we scarcely know anything at all.

Of course a connection between kingship ritual and horses ins documented in Ireland and in Sanskrit texts whence the speculation that Rhiannon represents sovereignty also. But in the Mabinogion Pwyll is already a king so that motif doesn’t actually appear.
 

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