The Temple of Doom?

[Inderjit S]

We first hear about the Paths of the Dead when the Grey Company bring word to Aragorn that Elrond told him to pass through the Paths of the Dead rather then go to Harrowdale with Théoden and thus go to Minas Tirith from there, but time was pressing.

Aragorn therefore took the dreaded Paths of the Dead. Whilst in there he finds the body of Baldor, son of Brego. Brego was the Second King of Rohan, and he built Medusled in T.A 2569. Prior to that his father Eorl had resided in Aldburg in the East-Mark. (Éomer later resided here. His father Éomund claim descent from Eofer Brego's third son, who Brego left in charge of the East-Mark.)

Baldor, at a feast to celebrate the building of Medusled vowed he would tread the Paths of the Dead.

Upon finding the body Aragorn comments;

Aragorn did not touch him, but after gazing silently for a while he rose and sighed. ‘Hither shall the flowers of simbelmynë come never unto world’s end,’ he murmured. ‘Nine mounds and seven there are now green with grass, and through all the long years he has lain at the door that he could not unlock. Whither does it lead? Why would he pass? None shall ever know

He found him close to a locked door, which he had been clawing at. We never get to find out what was behind that door, it remained a enigma, but we learn in Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor

The Men of Darkness built temples, some of great size, usually surrounded by dark trees, often in caverns (natural or delved) in secret valleys of mountain-regions; such as the dreadful halls and passages under the Haunted Mountain beyond the Dark Door (Gate of the Dead) in Dunharrow. The special horror of the closed door before which the skeleton of Baldor was found was probably due to the fact that the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out

So, this was a temple used by the 'Men of Darkness' to worship their evil dark-lord. But who were these 'Men of Darkness? In Of Galadriel and Celeborn and Of Dwarves and Men we learn that they were Gwathuirim people of the tribe of the House of Haleth who remained in Eriador. They were often at war with the Númenóreans who desecrated their lands and cut down their forests. It seems that the people in Tal-Elmar (HoME 12) were Gwathuirim. The Dunlendings were driven out of Calenardhon by the Northmen who were given the land by Cirion after the Battle of Celebrant. They had been driven out of their lands in Minhiriath and Enedwaith centuries before by the Númenóreans. Some also late in the S.A resided in what later became known as 'Gondor', though at first they were afraid of moving below the River Isen because of the Drúedain (There is a contradiciton in this storyline, the Men were held to come from the 'East' but Tolkien at one point states they Dunlendings and Men of Dunharrow were related. I will not delved into the histories of these people at this time). At the time of the coming of Isildur and Anarion they formed a large part of the indigenous Mannish population of the 'Gondor' and resided in the White Mountains. There they had worshipped Sauron, but when Isildur came they seemed to shift their allegiances to the Númenóreans but when Isildur asked for aid in the attack on Sauron they refused and he cursed them.

One wonders what they had/did in this temple? Human sacrifices? Were these what could be described as "heathen Kings" (Gandalf's words to Denethor).

 

[Lhunithiliel]

From the Athrabet:

'Surely you know well!' said Andreth. 'The darkness that is now confined to the North, but once'; and here she paused and her eyes darkled, as if her mind were gone back into black years best forgot. 'But once lay upon all Middle-earth, while ye dwelt in your bliss.'

I underlined a small extract of the above quote to show that IMHO, the influence of Morgoth was widely spread, which would mean that Men in the regions of the Haunted Mountain must have been under the same influence too.
Then, later on, in the Tale of Adanel w3e read:

Then in fear we spoke as he commanded, saying: 'Thou art
the Lord; Thee only we will serve. The Voice we abjure and will
not hearken to it again.'
'So be it!' he said. 'Now build Me a house upon a high place,
and call it the House of the Lord. Thither I will come when I
will. There ye shall call on Me and make your petitions to Me.'
And when we had built a great house, he came and stood
before the high seat, and the house was lit as with fire. 'Now,' he said, 'come forth any who still listen to the Voice!'
There were some, but for fear they remained still and said
naught. 'Then bow before Me and acknowledge Me!' he said.
And all bowed to the ground before him, saying: 'Thou art the
One Great, and we are Thine.'

Maybe the later built temples were a tradition of those far times?

 

[Inderjit S]

It is possible that Sauron's coming started off the Morgothism again. The Gwathuirim supported Sauron as they felt he could get rid of the Númenórean threat. If the people of the White Mountains were Gwathuirim then they would have fled from Morgoth and been a part of the Men who repented of their Morgoth worship. But if they worshipped Sauron they would have held him as both god and King. Myths Transformed (HoME 10) explains that Sauron preached atheism as it weakened resistance to himself, so the temples that were built would have more likely have been built for him rather then Morgoth. The Númenórean mariners in Tal-elmar comment on their view that a lot of the indigenous population of Middle-Earth worshipped Sauron. Tal-Elmar refutes this saying some didn't love or worship him, but the Númenóreans seem to be convinced about the tutelage of the Men of Middle-Earth under Sauron. But I think this was a vague generalisation based on skin colour. They were allied with the 'cruels' of the North, who seem to be Marachian tribes in Rhovanion, and therefore they closely resembled the Númenóreans and the tongue of the Gwathuirim would have been seen as 'harsh' and 'uncouth' by the Númenóreans since the Problem of Ros (HoME 12) tells us that the tongue of the Halethians was largely forgotten. (Bëor tells Finrod that they were sundered in speech from the Halethians.) As the Wanderings of Húrin (HoME 11) tell us their old speech had fallen by and large out of use by most people.

No Men held any lore of those times apart from the Marachian tribes, the Easterlings and Haradrim didn't have written histories anyway so any traditions they would have carried would have been oral, but I think that they only would have re-started their Morgothism with the return of Sauron.

Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world.

Letter #183; Letters of Tolkien

When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to be Morgoth returned.

Letter #183; Letters of Tolkien

Sauron was not a 'sincere' atheist, but he preached atheism, because it weakened resistance to himself

Myths Transformed; HoME 10

 

[baragund]

But why would Baldor try to get into this evil house of worship if he was being pursued by the evil spirits of the "Men of Darkness"? It seems to me like the temple would be the main place where these spirits would gather and Baldor would be trying his hardest to get his behind out of there.


As an aside: Lhun, you always have the coolest looking avatars. Do you make them yourself?

 

[Inderjit S]

Baldor didn't know it was a temple he didn't know what was behind the door. It may have been a way out. Curiosity killed the Rohhiric prince.

He didn't know he was being pursued, when he came to the door and found he couldn't get through and they showed themselves and broke his legs and he starved to death. He most certainly would have felt the 'disquiet' the the Grey Copmany felt when they pass through.

The Paths of the Dead may have been a legend in those parts and he may have vowed at a feast to explore it's secrets and what greater secret would there be then what lay hidden behind the door?

 

[baragund]

Yeah, that makes sense.

But to answer your original question, I found this passage from the Akallabeth, where it describes the temple Sauron persuaded Ar-Pharazon to build on top of Armenelos. First there is a physical description of the temple and then this:

For there was an altar of fire in the midst of the temple, and in the topmost of the dome there was a louver, whence tere issued a great smoke. And the first fire upon the altar Sauron kindled with the hewn wood of Nimloth.... Thereafter the fire and smoke went up without ceasing; for the power of Saouron daily increased, and in that temple, with spilling of blodd and torment and great wickedness, men made sacrifice to Melkor that he should release them from Death. And most often from among the Faithful they chose their victims...

Yeesh!! Pretty nasty stuff, wouldn't you say? Perhaps these temples in the White Mountains were smaller versions of the "BIG" temple that was first built on Armenelos, and similar rituals were performed in these smaller temples.

 

[Inderjit S]

Yes, they may have been similair to the temple on Armenelos, but the tragic thing with the Númenóreans is that they should have known better.

 

[Lantarion]

Ar-Inziladûn did know better! But after him it all sort of went downhill very quickly..

 

[Lhunithiliel]

But if Sauron preached atheism, if he wanted to be concidered as God and King, does this mean that he was convinced the Valar would not let Melkor back? Didn't he know about the profecy of Mandos?
That's strange!

Anyway, the temples could be well those houses of and for worshipping Sauron.
I also think that those temples were some places where Sauron could directly communicate with the high-positioned in the Men's societies, enslaving their souls (like he did with the Ringwraiths) and through them - spreading and fortifying his authority over ME.
Naive? Maybe.
But I also recall that tale of Adanel, a part of which I quoted above, as well as the words of Andreth about that old, old , ancient belief among Men that THE Lord may free them from their doom IF they worship him. And Sauron, I think was at those times THE One.... at least for most of those called "lesser Men" in ME. So.... One could imagine that Men still mantained those secret temples and held some secret rituals there as to ...."keep the faith" that maybe one day THE Lord will finally give them back what the believed he had taken (or rather his "boss" )
As for the rituals themselves .... I don't think human sacrifices were done. Why would sauron need the blood of a human body!? I am more inclined to think that that was a place where human souls were sacrificed rather than bodies.

As to why Baldor wanted to get in .... Well, temples of misteries, temples of worshiping a God were always attractive to adventurers. They never know what is to be found there but they always expect something extraordinary! I think that was the case with Baldor too.
****************

To that note aside

Thank you , baragund!
And yes, I'm making them myself .... It's a kind of a hobby or just "playing" in Corel Photopaint and the Adobe Photoshop (I'm still learning!) while having some rest.

 

[Inderjit S]

But if Sauron preached atheism, if he wanted to be concidered as God and King, does this mean that he was convinced the Valar would not let Melkor back? Didn't he know about the profecy of Mandos

There was no Second Prophecy of Mandos (HoME 5) that was a (most probably) a Númenórean myth. Mandos, Varda or Manwë never told anyone about the ending of the world.

Sauron could not, of course, be a 'sincere' atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru, according to his measure. He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Ea, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the 'change of the world' at the Downfall of Númenor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and 'colonize' Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manwë as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman.

Myths Transformed; HoME 10

I also think that those temples were some places where Sauron could directly communicate with the high-positioned in the Men's societies, enslaving their souls (like he did with the Ringwraiths) and through them - spreading and fortifying his authority over ME.

Something similar is mentioned in Laws and Customs of the Eldar (HoME 10), though vaguely so, it claims that Sauron and his Necromancers were able to enter the bodies of Men and thus control their actions.

sauron need the blood of a human body!? I

Come on he's evil-does he need a reason?

As to why Baldor wanted to get in .... Well, temples of misteries, temples of worshiping a God were always attractive to adventurers. They never know what is to be found there but they always expect something extraordinary! I think that was the case with Baldor too.

I don't think Baldor knew there was a Temple, I don't think anyone knew rightly what it was. The Rohirrim may have heard stories from the Gondorians though, though who knows if they knew what was there?

Ar-Inziladûn did know better! But after him it all sort of went downhill very quickly

I think it was going down-hill for a long time before that, then up-hill briefly, then down-hill again.

 

[baragund]

Inder, could you elaborate a little more on the notion of Sauron preaching atheism? (I haven't read HOME X yet so I'm a little behind the curve here.)

I'm asking because there seems to be some inconsistency. Sauron certainly wanted himself to be worshipped as a god, and at the time of the Akallabeth, he was actually referring to Melkor as the savior who would release Men from death and as "Lord of All". It seems to me this atheism applies only to the Valar and to Eru.

 

[Lantarion]

More like "selective anti-theism" then.
But I'm guessing Tolkien wasn't sure at the time he wrote that letter..

 

[Arvedui]

Sauron was not a 'sincere' atheist, but he preached atheism, because it weakened resistance to himself (and he had ceased to fear God's action in Arda).

Still from Myths Transformed.
Why he couldn't be a sincere atheist is also explained:

Sauron could not, of course be a 'sincere' atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru,

But to get closer to the Why?, it may be that we have to look at Sauron's background, and what he wanted to achieve:

Sauron, however, inherited the 'corruption of Arda, and only spent his (much more limited) power on the Rings; for it was the creatures of earth, in their minds and wills, that he desired to dominate.

Whereas Morgoth, on the other hand, sought dominion over Arda.

Sauron preached atheism, because it suited his goal, which was the domination of the creatures of Arda.


(All quotes from Myths Transformed.)

 

[Ancalagon]

Well-researched and thought out thread Inder

 

[Inderjit S]

Inder, could you elaborate a little more on the notion of Sauron preaching atheism? (I haven't read HOME X yet so I'm a little behind the curve here

No contradiction really. Sauron setting himself up as a god-king would have been simple with the Men of M-E.

Amongst the Númenóreans this would be difficult. It was obvious that he wasn't the God-they had just captured him! What would that make them then? Also they would question why he couldn't give them immortality rather then them invade Aman, and it would go against their lore. By saying the Valar lied when talking about Eru and that Morgoth was the true god would make sense.

Sauron's thoughts in M.T and Letter #183 refer to him in the Third Age after the 'change of the world' when he M-E had been abandoned by the Valar, Eru and Morgoth.

Well-researched and thought out thread Inder

Thag you very buch.