The Two Glorfindels!!

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Camille


hello Ancalagon, just a question by HOME what do you mean??

And about the Glorfindel subject something is said in the book of lost tales part 2 : The fall of Gondolin, there is a tale full in details about the fall of gondolin and at the end there are a lot of notes from Cristopher tolkien I will check them and I will post them
Greetings

Glorfindel was let to come back by the god mandos who looks after dead sprits and he was let to come back and help fight against sauron in the 2nd and 3rd ages.

 

[Ancalagon]

Camille; HOME means History of Middle-Earth.

Beleg, where did you come by that information?

 

[Harad]

help fight against sauron in the 2nd and 3rd ages

After the CoE he was rooting from the back benches.

 

[Úlairi]

Yes Ancalagon, Beleg is right. It says in the Sil that Mandos allowed Glorfindel to come back just as he did Beren and I believe that Glorfindel was the only Elf to come back from the halls of Mandos. Perhaps Beleg could tell us where exactly that is in the Sil. Beleg?

 

[Ancalagon]

Please, forgive my ignorance on this subject, but I cannot find reference to Glorfindels return anywhere in The Silmarillion. f 2 people say this, then I always call into question my own convictions, however, on this occassion I would need some evidence to support the arguement...........not for any reason other than to restore my sanity

 

[Harad]

The Silmarillion does not include any mention of Glorfindels return.

The only place that was found apparently was in correspondence of JRRT when he was quizzed about the link, if any, between Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of the Ford of Bruinen.

IMO, JRRT chose among bad options to have these Glorfindels be the same. This makes even more unexplainable the fact that Glorfindel in LOTR sits out the War of the Ring after the CoE.

 

[Cian]

Tolkien's essays regarding the Glorfindel question appear in the HoMe volume
"The Peoples of Middle-earth", Last Writings. See also HoMe 'The Return of the Shadow'.

 

[Hama]

I had believed that the two Glorfindels were always different and that possibly the one from the LoTR was named after the one from Gondolin. This was for two reasons:
1) The two Glorfindels act very differently from each other. First of all, the Glorfindel of Gondolin was a great warrior, one of the key generals of Turgon, which meant he must have been very great, and he also killed a Balrog in battle, something that even Gandalf had difficulty doing. However, the Glorfindel of LoTR, although he does manage to confront all nine of the ringwraiths, is not given nearly the same importance as the Glorfindel of Gondolin.
2) There are many cases of people and places being named after others. Lothlorien is named after the garden of Lorien in Valinor. Denethor is named after the elf of Ossiriand. Mablung of Ithilien is named after Mablung of Doriath. Ecthelion of Gondor is named after Echtelion of Gondolin. So I assumed that Glorfindel was such a case.

However if JRRT said so, it must be right...I guess, although I have a hard time imagining it. I heard that Glorfindel, like Beren, was released by Mandos, on another thread somewhere. I don't remember...

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Ancalagon
Camille; HOME means History of Middle-Earth.

Beleg, where did you come by that information?

Anc i think i heard it from one of the threads a while a go. And i always believe it do you have any info that it is wrong? Maybe their is something HOME? I haven't read them though i want 2.

 

[Camille]

hello Guys I have checked the notes of Cristopher tolkien at the Book of lost tales 2: the fall of Gondolin, and he does not say anything about Glorfindel, he does about Legolas but that doesnt help no? actually I dont believe they are the same person but that is just a thought greetings

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Camille
hello Guys I have checked the notes of Cristopher tolkien at the Book of lost tales 2: the fall of Gondolin, and he does not say anything about Glorfindel, he does about Legolas but that doesnt help no? actually I dont believe they are the same person but that is just a thought greetings

yes iw ould like to know that would be interesting.

 

[Harad]

Here are excerpts from the two essays from the "Peoples of Middle Earth." This kind of nails the identification of Glorfindel with Glorfindel altho they are not consistent with each other.

An Elf who had once known Middle-earth and had fought in the long wars against Melkor would be an eminently suitable companion for Gandalf. We could then reasonably suppose that Glorfindel (possibly as one of a small party,(1) more probably as a sole companion) landed with Gandalf - Olorin about Third Age 1000. This supposition would indeed explain the air of special power and sanctity that surrounds Glorfindel - note how the Witch-king flies from him, although all others (such as King Earnur) however brave could not induce their horses to face him...

We may then best suppose that Glorfindel returned during the Second Age, before the 'shadow' fell on Numenor, and while the Numenoreans were welcomed by the Eldar as powerful allies. His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gil-galad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them.

 

[Mormegil]

I would like to think that they were one and the same. Glorfindel took out a Balrog, so he deserved to be sent back to ME.

 

[Servant of God]

Glorfindel

I was just wondering: Who is Glorfindel? I know that one Glorfindel was an elf of Gondolin that died in its fall, but I'm talking about the other one. He drove away the witch king of Angmar during a battle in ancient Arnor (if that's the same one), he took Frodo to Imladris, and he was present at the Council of Elrond.
But who exactly was he. The only thing that I could get is when Gandalf called him a "Prince of the West". A high-elven prince of Valinor? A prince of Tol Eressea? Could someone please clear this up for me?

 

[Anamatar IV]

Glorfindell was a high elf. He did drive off the witch king in angmar of old. His horse led frodo to imladris and he drove the 6 remaining nazgul into the flood. He has earned great honor. He has defeated a balrog single handedly and if you want more information ask someone who has read UT or the sil.

 

[Servant of God]

I got that much. I just wanted to know it there was any information out there about who exactly he was. Maybe what kindred of the elves he belonged to?

 

[Anamatar IV]

as i said-ask someone who's read those books. What i just said are things ive picked up on this forum.

 

[Servant of God]

Actually, I've read both of those books, but I can't remember if anything was mentioned in them about Glorfindel's origin. Can anybody with some more extensive knowledge than me shed some light on the situation? Is anything mentioned in any of the HoME books about him?

 

[Anamatar IV]

ask some of the senior members. Ask it in one of the guilds ie. tolkienologists.

 

[Windfola]

Servant:

This is what I've found: Glorfindel was of the Noldor, who had returned to ME in Exile during the Eldar Days. He was of the House of Finarphir, "leader of the Host of Rivendell and one of Elrond's chief counsellors." He foretold that the doom of the Witch-King of Angmar (a/k/a, the Lord of the Nazgul) "would not be dealt 'by the hand of man.' "

Hope that helps.