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🕷️Ungoliant: The First of the Free Agents

Please don't feel obligated to discuss things that are not worth discussing. I have specifically created the "Would Gollum Beat Ghan Buri Ghan in a Spelling Bee?" thread for people (and ponys) in that situation.

Each particle-anti-particle pair that erupts from the vacuum maintains its own peculiar properties of mass, spin, etc. In Ungoliant's case her intrinsic properties include the ability to create more of the same darkness. She can be likened to an atom of U-238 which unlike an atom of Carbon, for example, can, when packed at sufficient density, result in a chain reaction and subsequent explosion. In U-ngoliants case the chain reaction is darkness and the explosion is Evil.
 
One thing everyone agrees on is that Ungoliant does not have a satisfactory history that quenches ones thirst for knowledge.

I can only speculate on my own opinion of Ungoliant and her origin, so don't knock it till you read it!

I am a firm beleiver that she was a Maiar, though counted great among the Ainur in origin. Though it easy to offer this opinion, I suppose I need to back it up. I am an advocate of the truth in myth and knowledge handed down by generations.

The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe, and that in the beginning she was one of those (maia) that he corrupted to his service.

Ordinarily, if this was passed through generation to generation by Mankind, it would most likely lose much of it's potency over the generations and ages. However, as we are dealing with the Eldar, we can put much more stock in the source. Certainly this in itself is insufficent, though I feel is the key to understanding the logic behind the beleif by the Eldar.

It was known that those who had joined Melkor, had either been corrupted, or at the least simply given allegiance to him. Remember, when we consider the Ainur, it was the Eldar who divided them into Valar or Maiar. The Valar we know as being the mightiest of the Ainur, though many Ainur, were still counted great among the Maiar; Eonwe, Osse, Melian, Tilion, Sauron, Gothmog, Olorin to name but a few. Others who may fall into this category, though unclear, could be Thuringwethil, Ungoliant, Draugluin, Goldberry and Bombadil.

Why then can we assume that they would fall into this category? I beleive that of those who took shape in Middle-Earth had assumed a form similar to that of their nature.

The words of Iluvatar to the Ainur in Ainulindale capture my reasoning;
And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the world, and the World shall Be; and those of you that will may go into it...............

........thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Iluvatar............but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took their leave of Iluvatar and descended into it.

Although the Maiar were lesser in power to the Valar, they still had the ability to clad themselves in worldly raiment, to take form visible or invisible in the eyes of the Eldar. Many of the Maiar never left the confines of The Timeless Halls, though many did, and when they did they left their spirit form behind. Whereas some such as Balrogs were dreadful, twisted forms, evil to behold and clad in wrath and malice. So too I fear was Ungoliant; she was dressed in lust and greed. When she is first discussed in the passage quoted by Harad, there is no definition of form, simply that she was. Only after her pursuit from Orome and her fleeing South. Long she lay unheeded, slowly venturing towards the light of the Undying Lands....

for she hungered for light and hated it

In a ravine she lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in the clefts of the mountains

This was a development of her form, one she must have changed and eventually created for herself, but unlikely the form she originally held, for her lust, insatiable hunger and evil wove her form into what we accept as a huge spider. Only a Maiar could have had this ability, to create a form for itself. Yet it is known that she was powerful, even enough to almost destroy Melkor himself save the intervention of his Balrogs, which in my opinion makes her a Maiar, once counted great among the Ainur.

Well, that's my reasoning and I am throwing it open for debate.
 
Good points, Anc.

Just because the Eldar didn't know where she came, doesn't make her a mystery. I'm sure many of the elves didn't really know who Gandalf was (Olorin) when he first came until he revealed it to them....And I think the hidden aspect of folklore would make a difference.
 
Mr. Ancalagon

you are coming from the same place as me, when I tried to fit Bombadil into an Ainur category, specifically a Maia. I went to great lengths to do this, only to have someone quote from the author that he didn't fit into the scheme of ME regarding the Ainur.

So at least there is some evidence that with at least Bombadil, Tolkien did not mean for him to be a great Maia (I thought of Yavanna).

If there is no quote from Tolkien similar to Bombadil for Ungoliant, then I think that an obvious starting point would be to do exactly as you have done, to say if she changes form, she must be one of the Ainur, and since the Valar are named and numbered, she must be a Maia.
 
I take the quote about Ungoliant and the ABSENCE of mention about her Maianic orgins to be an indicator of the abense of her Maianic origin, rather the presence of her Maianic origin.

Using Tom Bombadil as an example is rather unfortunate if you want to quote JRRT since he places TB outside of the standard categories.

from letter 144
And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).

letter 153
I do not mean him to be an allegory - or I should not have given him so particular, individual, and ridiculous a name - but 'allegory' is the only mode of exhibiting certain functions: he is then an 'allegory', or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture .

And as before:

from letter 144
Ungoliante the primeval devourer of light

hardly sounds like a Maia.

I do now see a connection between the two. They both are "other."
 
To be honest, I think Tolkien had already labelled Bombadil and Ungoliant as Ainur when he first wrote of them, though at the time did not offer explanation about their origins for the sake of mystery. However, as time progressed and more people like you and I wanted to know in greater depth every breath, movement, place of birth, size, angle etc etc, he chose to simply allow them to remain a mystery for the sake of preservation.

By naming them as 'the other', which in Olde English is a term given to describe races other than Anglo-Saxon, he has simply ensured some modicum of enigmatical obscurity. Tolkien was a master of leaving questions unanswered, even if there appeared an obvious answer. His design was to keep us, the reader, always guessing. This is the case with Bombadil, Ungoliant and others.

Read beteen the lines of his letters and you will find he wishes to remain as illusive as he did when writing the characters themselves. We may never know of their true origin, then again it may be so obvious that Tolkien enjoys watching our bewilderment as we bicker and squabble over his deliberate perplexities.
 

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