Was 🧙Gandalf wise in letting Frodo bear the Ring?

[BlackCaptain]

I don't have any quotes right now, becase I have no idea where my book is, but when Gandalf first tells Frodo to destroy the Ring, with a hammer and his small fire, Frodo obviously won't try to destroy it. Now at the Council of Elrond, Gandalf allows for it to be decided for Frodo to try to destroy the Ring. Why would he do that! He must have remembered Frodo wouldn't even let harm be done to it way before he got to Rivendell, why does the think that Frodo will try to destroy it when it would be the most precious?

 

[Celebthôl]

Whoo that is a very good question, but i guess Gandalf thought that he would be with Frodo at Orodruin at the crunch point, man was he ever wrong , and that he would destroy it etc one way or another...and i guess that was one of the main purposes of the fellowship...

 

[BlackCaptain]

But Gandalf mentioned earlier that he wouldn't be able to take the Ring from Bilbo physicaly without completely breaking his morale, er something like that. And the want for the Ring would be just as high in the Orodruin as it would for as long as Bilbo had it, because of location and all. It just all makes so little sense... I wish I had quotes. Haha

 

[Celebthôl]

Well he did cause Bilbo to leave the ring didnt he, why not do it with Frodo...only...des...troy it...hmm, seems to get difficult about here

 

[baragund]

Perhaps it was because Gandalf had so few options at the time. Put yourself in Gandalf's position. He wouldn't carry the Ring himself, not even for such a short time as to find somebody else to carry it wherever; he had a inkling of Bilbo's tough will in his discovery that Bilbo had carried the Ring for something in the order of 50 years without drastic change; he had another inkling that he could persuade a hobbit, like Bilbo, to do certain things with the Ring (in Bilbo's case, turn it over to Frodo). These inklings could have lead Gandalf to have a hunch that Frodo (who was young and physically strong enough to have a chance at getting to Mt. Doom) could somehow pull it off. I never had the impression that Gandalf had a plan in mind precisely how to do this.

As far as figuring out what to do once they got to Mt. Doom, there seemed to be a heavy dose of "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" style of thinking.

It was a desperate gamble on Gandalf's part but I really can't see what else he could have done given the experiences he had up to that time.

 

[Celebthôl]

Originally posted by baragund
As far as figuring out what to do once they got to Mt. Doom, there seemed to be a heavy dose of "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" style of thinking.

great quote, and its so true, but if they planned ahead then if the plans changed due to unforseen events, i.e. the attack at Amon-Hen etc they would be all sorts of trouble, especialy if Gandalf had fallen and passed on what he intended to do...

 

[BlackCaptain]

But by the time the whole company would have been in the Sammath Naur, Frodo would not by any means give the Ring up. He didn't even without the Fellowship there. I just can't understand how Gandalf couldn't see that.

And being the super wize Wizard that Gandalf is, why in the world would he base the fate of Middle earth on "inklings"?

 

[Feanorian]

I think Frodo was still iggnorant to the fact of what the Ring truly was and could truly do if it were to fall into Sauron's hands, I think he still thinks of it as an heirloom from his uncle which Gandalf thinks is sketchy to say the least.

 

[baragund]

BC, maybe "intuition" would be a better term than "inklings" but Gandalf seemed to be able to read people very well; and had an excellent ability to determine their character. However, Gandalf did not have a crystal ball and he couldn't predict specific events. Think of all of the references throughout LOTR to "hope" when the characters are describing some major turn of events. There isn't much in the way of objective calculated risk or detailed scientific predictions.

Put another way, Gandalf had faith in Frodo and the Hobbits.

 

[BlackCaptain]

I like that idea. It seems that Gandalf and the Fellowship are saved by "Hope" very often. It's almost eerie how blind hope, and faith in the immpossible, could be a backround for the wisest being in Middle Earth's desciscion on the very fate of everyone. I would think Gandalf would know better than to risk the very well being of Middle Earth in a false hope that Hobbits could destroy the Ring, when Frodo clearly even wouldn't do it the first day he had the Ring. Was he planning on Gollum getting the Ring and falling into the Sammath Naur?

I can see where you get this hope in the Hobbits and all, but Gandalf had a clear reason to not have this hope when Frodo wouldn't even harm it when he first got it.

 

[baragund]

I pulled my copy of ROTK to make sure I was right with my timelines. In The Shadow of the Past, when Gandalf first tells Frodo about the Ring, something in the order of 25 or 30 years had elapsed since Bilbo had given the Ring to Frodo. So the Ring had an awful long time to work on Frodo by the time Gandalf threw it into the hearth fire, causing the hobbit to freak out a little.

The 80 years or so that elapsed since Bilbo found the Ring gave Gandalf a couple of pieces of important insight. First, Bilbo and Frodo proved that hobbits could keep the Ring for extended periods of time without being totally consumed, even remain outwardly normal. Second, Gandalf was able to persuade Bilbo to voluntarily give up the Ring after his 111th birthday, something nobody else (as far as I know) could do. Despite the initially poor response from Frodo when Gandalf threw the Ring into the hearth fire, Gandalf probably thought he could persuade Frodo to somehow give up the Ring just like he persuaded Bilbo 25 years earlier.

There is no arguing that the quest to destroy the Ring was an incredibly long shot, but Gandalf's hope wasn't entirely false or unfounded and his faith wasn't completly blind. Again, there really was no viable alternative.

 

[Elendil3119]

The Council of Elrond

No one answered. The noon-bell rang. Still no one spoke. Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo's side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice. 'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'

Obviously here, Frodo was guided by some other power than his own: fate, what Eru ordained. I believe that Gandalf was aware that Frodo's choice was not completely 'voluntary', so to speak. Notice that Gandalf did not even speak at this point of the Council; he realized that it was what Eru had planned. In my opinion, that is the main reason he 'trusted' the Ring to Frodo on the Quest. So yes, I think that Gandalf was wise in letting Frodo carry the Ring, since it was obviously the choice of a higher Power.

'If you want to know, the only real eye-openers, as you put it, were you and Frodo; and I was the only one that was not surprised.'

Gandalf probably forsaw this event, which could explain why he did not say anything when Frodo spoke up at the Council.

 

[Arvedui]

This thread has been moved out of the Guild of Scholar's Hall, and will hopefully be filled with the thoughts of more members.

 

[Arthur_Vandelay]

Let me add my two cents worth in the form of a few questions. Did Gandalf intend for Frodo to bear the Ring to Mt. Doom from the outset?

In "The Shadow of the Past," Gandalf says:

There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths of Orodruin, the Fire-mountain, and cast the Ring in there, if you really wish to destroy it, to put it beyond the grasp of the Enemy for ever.

Further down the page he adds:

I will help you bear this burden, as long as it is yours to bear.

But a little further on, in "Three is Company," Gandalf says:

It may be your task to find the Cracks of Doom; but that quest may be for others: I do not know.

Did Gandalf really expect that Frodo would be entrusted with the quest to destroy the Ring? Who else might he have had in mind for the job?

 

[Inderjit S]

Do you think Gandalf had enough truth in Eru's providence to think things would "work out o.k"?

Gandalf hints on several occasions on divine intervention-does this show he knows either Eru or the Valar will be there to lend a helping hand?

Frodo resigns himself to the fact that it was _his_mission. He even hints at fate playing an important part in the thing. i.e. his talk about Gollum's possible perfidy.

Even Elrond thinks the ring may be assigned to Frodo beforehand. Did Frodo resign himself to this when the "other will" was speaking for him at the council?

 

[Ravenna]

As previous posts have shown, the Wise were in a real dilemma here, nobody with innate power dared to even touch the Ring, let alone carry it for many months, yet they were also fully aware that it must be destroyed if at all possible.
In one way, it almost seem as if Frodo is being set up for the task. As Elrond says.

And neither strength will carry us far upn it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.

After all, who else was there at the Council who was small, weak etc apart fom Frodo and Bilbo? (and Sam of course). Obviously Bilbo was never going to be a choice, so it had to be Frodo.

On the other hand we come back to the thread running through the entire story, that of preordainment (if that's the term to use ) Elrond also states

If I understand aright all that I have heard, I think that this task is appointed to you Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will.

I know there have been some good threads regarding this matter of free will vs pre ordained fate, and think that this is a prime example. Was Frodo indeed fated to carry the Ring, or was he in a sense conned into doing it by others wiser than he who were at their wits' end trying to come up with a solution to an impossible situation?

 

[Melian_the_Maya]

I think that indeed there was something like mysticism that determined Gandalf. If I am not mistaken, there is a little something he said... I don't have the book on me right now, but something of the sort: Bilbo was meant to find the Ring against its Master's will - in which case Frodo was also meant to have it. Which is why Gandalf did not oppose what seemed to be a Higher Will of some sort at the council of Elrond.

 

[Isthir]

Ahh yes, the return of my thoughts...how long has it been? Oh well, on to the subject.

To me the whole situation seemed a bit like gurilla warfare. Think about it, hobbits are strong willed (which helps in the opposition against the Ring's power), small, stealthy, and pretty much unknown to the enemy. I too do not have my books here so I cannot give any quotes or dates, yet the Enemy knew very little about the Halflings...just like the rest of the world. So who better to make it into Mordor and the Cracks of Doom besides a strong willed unknown race?
I may just be really tired and none of this makes sense, but those are my thoughts at the moment.
-Isthir

 

[Inderjit S]

Don't want to give a glib reply, but who else was there?

 

[Thorondor_]

Why not take the ring to Aman? Couldn't the Valar use it, without being affected by it? Or just destroy it?

Maybe it was a test for Middle-Earth to resist such a temptation, to overcome it and to destroy it.