Was Maeglin evil?

[Bucky]

He sure ended up doing some perty evil things. :*eek:

 

[Eledhwen]

Maeglin was not evil per se; but he made evil choices. He let his desires and disappointments hold sway over those choices. How much this resentment dwelt in him from birth, and how much it was learned as he grew, or generated by Tuor's arrival, I don't know.

 

[Bard the Bowman]

Everyone, has evil inside of them. Except maybe Eru. However, everyone else does, because we see that even the good guys do evil deeds. Turin does evil, Feanor does evil, Curufin does evil, Thingol does evil, and Maeglin does evil. However, its when these evil deeds consume the individual and evil becomes the controlling factor in his mind.

The question is, was Maeglin's intent evil? He had evil thoughts, and he performed evil. I wouldn't necessarily say that his betrayal of the location of Gondolin was evil, since he was tortured and people break under torture. But it was his continued betrayal and alliance with Melkor that finally tipped the scales over to his evil side. So you see, it started with his defiance of Turin after Tuor's usurpation, and then after the torture his malice increased greatly. That was the tipping point: when he was offered a deal. When he took the deal he gave in to his wild evil side, and was absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, evil.

 

[Maiden_of Harad]

two points if I may:

Maeglin's love for Idril was. . .odd. . . "The Eldar wedded not with kin so near, nor ever before had any desired to do so . . . For it seemed to her [Idril] a thing strange and crooked in him, as indeed the Eldar ever since have deemed it. . ." (Of Maeglin).
So, by Elvish standards, Maeglin is the first recorded pervert.

My second:

Maeglin wasn't tortured-- ". . .the torture werewith he was threatened cowed his spirit. . ." (Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin, emphasis added)

Maeglin gave in before the pain started. He sold out. It would be easy to forgive him (he is facing Morgoth) except that Hurin had been in the same situation and defied Morgoth.

I never realized what a weakling Maeglin was! And an elf too! To think that a mortal man should stand firm (Hurin, at that) but an elf couldn't?

Now back on topic...
...Of course he was evil! Not totally, but it so dominated his nature that he rightfully can be called so (Of couse I'm severe on him, being my leat favorite character in the entire history of ME). As to his merely being a puppet of Eru, he was not. Eru did not (I'm going off of Tolkien mythology and Catholic theology here, which I know influenced Tolkien's views on God and evil) create evil, he merely, due to his infinite knowledge, forsaw the evil that would come due to the misuse of free will, and planned his universe around that fact, so that even evil would further his plans for the world.

Well, that my take on it.

 

[independent]

I do not think Maeglin was evil by nature, not anymore than any other Elf. It would be his circumstances that made him so. Maeglin was the son of Eol but since he was cursed by his father on not coming with him and staying with his mother. Then after that a desire came to his heart. He wanted Idril but since Idril is a first cousin he was not allowed to marry her. This tore him apart but when Tour came jealousy aroused that a man marry and elf. That time he was captured by Morgoth’s spies and he was held captive until he came to Melkor’s hall in Thangorodrim.

 

[Eledhwen]

He was ruthless, treacherous, and prepared to sell the Gondolin and its people to gain what Morgoth could offer him. Melkor could be very persuasive and Maeglin felt very aggrieved; but unlike Fëanor, who was the first Elf to slay his own kind, Maeglin allied himself willingly with Morgoth against the king who saved his life, adopted him and raised him as a prince. He didn't even repent when he realised there would be no kingdom to gain, and fought against Tuor as the city burned.

 

[Rutheaserce]

I'd say Maeglin is just as 'evil' as Fëanor, but perhaps a bit more so (because Fëanor rejected Melkor to his face, that little ball of fire) because he didn't seem to do as much to resist. But (unless someone has already pointed this out, sorry if you have!) because he was directly persuaded by Melkor, and he had already been weakened (or at least that's how I see it) by both his parents' deaths. But he was not evil from the beginning, just like nearly all "evil" characters (I would argue that even Melkor was not evil at all when he was first brought into existence) in the Silmarillion. And while his feelings for Idril were a bit... uh... gross, I kind of thought of it in a way similar to the Tempest (which I haven't read in a while, so I don't remember the names. At all.) Maeglin was basically isolated from society, and I wouldn't be surprised if the only woman he ever saw was his mother (and possibly dwarf women, which I'm sure he wasn't really into) until he went to Gondolin. So it may have been one of those impulsive obsessions... but that's still weird.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

Evil is in the eye of the beholder. Evil can mean cruel, unjust, wicked and various other synonyms.

What was the cause of Maeglin's actions? Jealousy, greed, anger. These things do not make a wicked person, but they may cause someone to do wicked things. Maeglin himself was not an evil person, but his actions caused him to do something evil. His thoughts were not malicious, and he merely acted out of lust and desire.

Or at least, that's the way I see it.

Uhmm....

In Middle-earth, Evil is most definitely not "in the Eye of the beholder."

Evil and Good (and Light and Dark) in Middle-earth are tangible, real things.

Manichean Dualism is true in Middle-earth.

This means that you can literally have a "handful of Pure Evil." You can put it in your pocket. You can bake a cake with it. You can sprinkle it on toast.

The same is true of "Good," and "Light" and "Dark."

They had actual vats of "Light" that they gathered from the Two Trees in Valinorë.

Ungoliantë spun actual webs of "Darkness," and the fog created wasn't just so think that it blocked light, but rather it was an "Anti-Light." It was tangible "stuff" that was Darkness Itself.

Tom Shippey discusses this in The Road to Middle-earth, where he discusses the problematic nature of Manichean Dualism to a Catholic Theology, and to Tolkien, yet for a pagan mythology, and for Anglo-Saxon and Norse Myth, Manichean Dualism was a very real thing within those myths.

In plain moral/ethical terms of Tolkien's Theological beliefs, Maeglin was not "Evil," he was Sinful. He was Covetous, and Lusted after Idril.

And, due to the Metaphysics of Middle-earth, this "corrupted" Maeglin (allowed "Evil" to work through him).

In Morgoth's Ring (and The Letters of JRRT) , Tolkien and CJRT (Christopher) both explain that Morgoth's rebellion caused his power to be diffused throughout the substance of Ëa and Arda.

Literally the Universe itself was poisoned by Morgoth. Tolkien limited this poisoning to Arda, as the Ainulindalë was really just specific to Arda, and not to all of Ëa, but simply Arda having been diffused with the Evil Substance of Morgoth is enough to cause any person to have that Evil corrupt them.

Remember that Corruption is a major Theme of Tolkien's within his work on Middle-earth.

Corruption is the major theme of the Abrahamic Faiths as well: That the Rebellion of Lucifer/Satan poisoned Creation. Although the degree to which this theme is present in any one sect within the Abrahamic Traditions varies not just between the sect, but within the person as well.

Given this, Maeglin was hampered by not having a sufficiently grounded Foundation because of the hatred of his father, Eol, for the Noldorin, and Mankind. This nurtured the seed of Evil within Maeglin, which may or may-not have taken root, and possibly planted other seeds of Evil as well.

And being a "Dark Elf" (Moriquendi), Maeglin did not have the benefit of having lived in Valinorë (a Holy Land), where he would have been exposed to the Light of the Two Trees.

Having lived thus, most of the Noldor were thus especially armored against Corruption by having been touched by the "Light of Creation" from the Two Trees (something not tainted by Morgoth). Not all Noldor were equally affected by that Light, and the Sons of Feanor themselves did great damage to themselves with their Oath. It caused that Light to fail within them, where others who nurtured it would have been more protected against Corruption.

So.... Magellan simply had been dealt a raw deal by both Fate and his own choices that led him down the wrong path.

MB

 

[Ingolmin]

We can't say that Maeglin was evil. His move was indeed misguided when he stood with Turgon and openly opposed his father Eol. But still a shadow lay upon him such as the Doom of Mandos lay upon the Noldor and so Idril hated him the more since he betrayed his own father's kin. He wasn't evil before but had become afterwards as the Fall of Gondolin drew near.

 

[Matthew Bailey]

In Tolkien's writing, he uses the term "Shadow" to refer to "Evil."

That is why Morgoth and Sauron was referred to as The Shadow. The full term is the "Shadow of Evil."

Maeglin had a choice. He could have chosen between the Right Thing, and "Good," or the Wrong Thing, and thus "Evil."

Maeglin chose "Evil."

This is the core of Catholic, and most Christian beliefs: That Evil is a choice. You know.... That whole thing about "Free Will" and all.

In Middle-earth, this is complicated by the existence of a Manichaean Evil in the world. So in that sense Maeglin was not Pure Evil as Morgoth had become, and as had elements of Arda Marred.

MB

 

[Ingolmin]

Well, friend. But see what I have given in the post, the last sentence. I say that he indeed became evil when the Fall of Gondolin drew near. Though I accept what you said about being evil. Thank you, friend.
No need for waking up late at night to answer my question. I am a young loremaster and claim that I am an heir of Elrond Halfelven.

 

[PaigeSinclaire88]

I don't think he was evil in the modern sense of the word, an although he had done evil deeds I do think to an extent he was a victim of circumstances which put him in situations that he acted as he did.

Now that being said, someone can be good and do evil things for the right reasons. And people can do good things for the wrong reasons. That's life and the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" I find to be true. And sadly I think Meaglin was a victim of circumstance. It was beyond evil for him to use his as a weapon, as a child of divorce I've seen my brother, sister and I being used as a weapon and that is wrong no matter how badly someone tries to defend it. His evil attempts though I think were from being broken to an extent. Only a broken soul or lost soul would try to kill those he claims to love. In that instance he reminds me of my ex, an my best friends soon to be ex husband. After he abused me, after joining the military we broke up. We were high school sweetheart's well its a long story he ended up introducing me to my now husband. Anyways when I wouldn't take him back he married and had children with children with my best friend of ten years... Well when she began the divorce process and kicked him out he kidnapped their two children taking them out of state and threatened to kill her if she didn't take him back. We arent talking right now so idk if she did but last I heard she hadn't taken him back. Well, now he's claiming in court hes been abused by his mother (who is evil btw and it wouldnt surprise me) but I think mitigating circumstances do matter. It's why in court trials a persons past always comes up. Now I'm not saying that it justifies abusing others or hurting others but it def adds to the psychology of the person doing the wrong.

I said all that to say that I only think Meaglin is evil to an extent because of the circumstances he was in. Even with my ex that beat me...and did worse than just that I think I could find it in my heart to forgive IF in fact he was abused by his mother.

 

[Kata]

Per se, Maeglin was not evil, he is a victim of circumstances - he was raised by a controlling father and an irresponsible mother - I've read a lot of people judging Eol, but what about Aredhel - she found herself in a loveless marriage because of her lies - when she got bored of Gondolin, she lied to her brother about her destination - and she was extremely selfish - if she was captured and tortured, she would have been the one to betray the location of the hidden city. In addition, she was arrogant and overly self-confident when she went riding - and to be honest, Tolkien said EXPLICITLY that she was not against the idea of staying with Eol in his forest. Her problem was that she gets bored easily and is totally irresponsible and selfish, not to mention that she tells lies all the time.

Eol's problem was his controlling nature, his lack of trust in his own kind, his naivety when it comes to the matters of love and female psychology, vanity (he was sooo humiliated after visiting one of Feanor's sons after his family fled from him) and isolationism. In general, when Tolkien describes Elves in his works I always have a feeling that there is something missing - in terms of letting their emotions show - there is always something amiss when it comes to their emotional responses - I think human characters are much better developed (intentionally?)...

Maeglin grew up in a home which was full of suppressed resentment, lies and deceptions, cruelty (attributable to both his parents, not just Eol), isolated from other Elves and exposed to emotions and interactions in Gondolin he had no capacity of handling - his defenses were weakened, his moral frame already cracked - Morgoth had an easy task here... With better upbringing and more social interaction, Maeglin would have been a normal, well-rounded person...

 

[OfRhosgobel]

Would you say Maeglin was an evil character overall?

Did he consciously commit evil deeds?

Or was he more of a victim of his circumstances and/or a captive of his desires?

He committed evil deeds, which in the traditional sense would make him evil. He was full of vices and he let them control him. In other words.. I'm glad they sent him over the wall, lol.

 

[Phuc Do]

He is a bad guy.