Was Tom Bombadil Jewish? (A serious thread...)

[Walter]

Re: You miss the point here...

Originally posted by BluestEye
But why IARWAIN BEN-ADAR???

What is 'Iarwain'? Why did he chose this name? And why 'Fatherless'? What does it mean? It seems he had some intention in the Elven-name he chose for our dear Tom... what was this intention?
Bluest Eye

Okay, I'll give it one more try...

'Who are you, Master?' he asked.
'Eh, what?' said Tom sitting up, and his eyes glinting in the gloom. 'Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'
TFotR - In the House of Tom Bombadil

I mean "Oldest and Fatherless" is not a bad name for someone with such a biography...

 

[Legolam]

What about all his other names? What do they mean? The only one I can remember at the moment is Orald by the dwarves.

 

[BluestEye]

This is what I asked a number of times on this thread, Legolam, and it seems nobody knows, or is too shy to answear

Anyway, I will look for Tom's other names ("Forn for the Dwarves; Yárë for the Elves, and Iaur ; Erion for the Gnomes; Eldest for men") when I return home from my work this evening.

Wish me luck

Bluest Eye

 

[Lantarion]

Good luck Bluest, but we were actually looking for explanations for the latest published names of Tom Bombadil, not something from the HoME.

 

[BluestEye]

Latest such as what, Pontifex my friend

BluestEye

 

[Lantarion]

Sorry, I meant like in the LotR. I don't recall there being any mention of 'Gnomes' in the books.

 

[7doubles]

"the hord" is a great song\poem.

 

[Lantarion]

Umm.. ´What does "The Horde" have to do with Tom Bombadil?

 

[7doubles]

it is in his adventures after "the stone troll".

 

[falcolite]

quite interesting topic you folks have stumbled upon, keep it up!

 

[Leto]

Jewish? Name aside, Ol' Tom seems more like a Taoist immortal to me... Jolly demeanor, without a care in the world, at one with nature...goldberry says 'he is.' singing all day long...' He screams all day without becoming hoarse. This is perfect harmony.'

 

[Phantom]

Tom couldn't be Jewish because there was no Jewish religion back in Middle Earth. Come to think of it, I don't recall any mention of religion at all (at least in LOTR and The Hobbit).

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

This is one of the most original and entertaining threads I've read in quite a while! But nobody has addressed the question of Bombadil's Jewishness from the ceremonial standpoint: Was he circumcised? Did he have a briss?

If so, that would mean that somewhere in Middle-earth there was a moyel (a rabbi trained to do ritual circumcision) around to do the job. If we have a moyel then we have to have a whole Orthodox community to which he belonged and in which he functioned! If so, they are a complete mystery because Tolkien never mentioned them.

Did Bombadil and his Lady Goldberry (a suspiciously Jewish-sounding name) celebrate the Jewish Holy Days? Did they keep kosher? The questions are endless...

Tolkien does mention Jews in his collected letters. Here are some selected passages:

(From Letter #156)

The Numenoreans...began a great new good, and as monotheists; but like the Jews (only more so) with only one physical centre of 'worship': the summit of the mountain of Meltarma 'Pillar of Heaven' — literally, for they did not conceive of the sky as a divine residence..."

(From Letter #30)

Dear Sirs,
Thank you for your letter.....I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people.

But most to the point:

(From Letter #176)

[This in relation to a broadcast adaptation of LOTR]

...I thought that the Dwarf (Gloin not Gimli, but I suppose Gimli will look like his father — apparently someone's idea of a German) was not too bad, if a bit exaggerated. I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue...

===============================

So Tolkien thought that Jews and Dwarves had more to compare than Jews to Bombadil. Also, since Bombadil was "the oldest," the implication is that he had no parents since he was "there since the beginning." And with no (Jewish) parents, no briss!

I think the whole thing is, as someone suggested, that some of the words invented by Tolkien have a mild and passing resemblance to some Hebrew words, although they are more based in Finnish and Old English.

Abi gezint!

Barley

 

[spaceboy]

JRRT's racial analogies

I was reading a radio interview conducted with prof Tolkien and came across an interesting point that is somewhat related to this thread. He was mentioning how the dwarves are based (loosley I am supposing) on the Jewish peoples, and the hobbits are symbolic of the English, small (in imagination) but huge in heart. I don't have the link at this sec but if you guys are interested I'll post it as soon as I get home.

 

[Starbrow]

Hi spaceboy,
I would be very interested in reading that interview script. Please post it.
Thanks.

 

[Eledhwen]

You asked whether Tolkien knew Hebrew.

He translated the book of Jonah for the New Jerusalem Bible (a Roman Catholic Bible). It's possible he used the Septuagint, but I would expect such an incorrigible philologist to refer to the original Hebrew.

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

You asked whether Tolkien knew Hebrew.

He translated the book of Jonah for the New Jerusalem Bible (a Roman Catholic Bible). It's possible he used the Septuagint, but I would expect such an incorrigible philologist to refer to the original Hebrew.

I always loved the Book of Jonah — it's a whale of a story!

Barley

 

[Eledhwen]

I always loved the Book of Jonah — it's a whale of a story!

Barley

Aaaargh!

I read Tolkien's translation of Jonah, hoping for some flair that did not exist in other translations. Alas, he was probably too keen to be accurate. Still, I bet he could retell most of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) adventure stories better than most who've made a living out of it.

 

[spaceboy]

JRRT Interview

Hi Starbrow,

Sorry it took so long but my internet has been hit by some Black Breath! Here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/5014/interview.html

 

[BlackCaptain]

I myself don't like this idea.

The Hobbit's named him an English name...

Ben-Adar ... Is it possible that every single elvish phrase with 'Ben' in it or 'Adar' automaticalyl asumes a jewish backwround?

I know that Tolkien rooted his languages in other European languages, but from what I can remember none of them were from Hebrew backrdounds.

And even if by some strange happenings, It is meant to be a name of Hebrew backround... that wouldn't make Tom himself Jewish, because simply there was no Judaism in Middle-Earth.


Tom Bombadil was NOT Jewish. His name may (by a slim chance) have a Jewish backround, but that would not make Tom Jewish