Were the 💀Nazgul kind of weak?

[Éomond]

Well, there are freaked out by fire and water. But in FotR, their horses totally freaked out at the river! Not them. I don't think they're cowards, just weak.

 

[Bombadillo]

the nazgul are maybe a little frightened by fire, but they die not so easy. That makes them quite evil and stuff.
but i have to say i found the balrog in the book much more frightening *** (sorry my english leaves me for a minute) nazgul.

btw: at the ford, the nazgul crossed the river with no fear, it was the tidal wave that just swept them of their feet, they stranded without their cloth, sword and horses, unable to do much serious harm, so they had to return to barad-dur to change...

 

[pohuist]

Not exactly. The Nasgul are afraid of the water as well as of fire. Aragorn and Glorfindel drove ost of them into the the water (with the fire) and then they were swept away by the tidal wave.

I don't agree in general that Nasgul are weak. They were not made for fighting, their main weapon is fear and they do a pretty good job in instilling it into the enemies. They were also not necessarily the best hunters for the Ring, but they were the speediest and the most trusted, while Sauron was out of time. Finally they were very hard to kill (after all they were already dead). I don't quite see how the chief Nasgul was empowered before the battle on Pelennor Fields, I think he was the same as before. Maybe Dark Wraith can enlighten me. Finally, running away from the fight when the fight is not necessary ot achieve their ends makes them smart as opposed to dumb and/or cowards.

On the subject of super trolls, those were not really super trolls, just a little bit smarter and not afraid of sunlight. Definitely not qualify as "super" in my book.

 

[Grond]

from American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition
Super -
1) Above; over; upon: superimpose.
2) Superior in size, quality, number, or degree: superfine.
3) a. Exceeding a norm: supersaturate.
b. Excessive in degree or intensity: supersubtle.
c. Containing a specified ingredient in an unusually high proportion: superphosphate.
4) More inclusive than a specified category: superorder.

The Olog-hai simply being able to tolerate the Sun would qualify them for the title Super-troll in my book and aparently in American Heritage's book as well.

 

[Dark_wraith]

I like grond!!! He always finds the best way to put across my stupidity into intelligent coments and then backs em up!!!

As for the nazgul thing, I read somewhere in the two towers today (it was in the uruk-hai chapter) that the nazgul's are the apple in saurons eye. it was said when the little goblin tried arguing with ugluk. Surely this would mean that the nazgul are the favorite warriors of sauron and i cannot think what would please an evil emporer better than strength as well as cunning and fear. Unfortunately if a wave can knock ten bells of s**t outta the strongest warrior in mordor then what chance did sauron have really??!!

lol

Ok before i get corrected a thousand times i was exaggeratintg!!! I know the nazgul arent probably the best (lets hope for saurons sake) and they werent beaten but if i was a nazgul i would stop with all the stalking crap and just take the ring from frodo. after all, he is very visible to them, they are drawn to him, there are 9 of them, 1 of him, and even if they are naked after that wave, surely that would scare the poor guy even more. i woul;d be scared too if i wa sfaced with gang rape from 9 undead warriors!!!



wow that was a long one!

=BeZ=

 

[Dark_wraith]

Originally posted by pohuist
On the subject of super trolls, those were not really super trolls, just a little bit smarter and not afraid of sunlight. Definitely not qualify as "super" in my book.

Oh and the trolls are not just a bit smarter and not afraid of sunlight. With a troll sunlight isnt a matter of fear, its a matter of wether or not they turn to stone. these particular trolls do not. They also:
1. Stronger
2. More agile
3. More fierce
4. Smarter
5. Harder than stone

They also learned how to speak the black speech of Barad-dur

And now i think i deserve to have a smug grin!!



=BeZ=

 

[Anamatar IV]

if grond hadnt been here (go ahead keep your secrets grond!) then you would have nothing to back up super trolls.

 

[Dark_wraith]

yeah but he was so my super trolls are alive and well!!! I have found the bit where they are mentioned anyway now.

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by Dark_wraith
Surely this would mean that the nazgul are the favorite warriors of sauron and i cannot think what would please an evil emporer better than strength as well as cunning and fear. Unfortunately if a wave can knock ten bells of s**t outta the strongest warrior in mordor then what chance did sauron have really??!!

The wave did nothing to them except drowned their horses. But Frodo, at that time was in Rivendell under the protection of Elrond and a bunch of Elves. For more about why they didn't fight him before, read the thread "Aragorn on Weathertop".
Finally, Grond, although dictionary definition backs you up, from the earlier posts of Dark Wraith I inferred that his understanding contained much more superiority (like a man vs. Nasgul who is in a sense super-man -- cannot be killed, instills fear,etc). Olog-hai do not qualify as such. Being able to withstand sunlight is a good quality, but Sauron was able to produce darkness during the siege of Gondor, so they could do without. All trolls are harder than stone. Smartness and being able to learn the speech does not add much in battle, as long as they were coherent enough to understand orders. Agility is a good quality but they did not need it much, they were used for full frontal attack, much like tanks would be. In short, I do not see anything about them that with a little help from Sauron a regular troll would not be able to do in a battle. So yes, they were superior, but not as much as to become "super" for me.

 

[Dark_wraith]

did you not read my above post???? The olog-hai were stronger, smarter, faster, harder and could withstand sunlight and speak. What more could they do to make them super, save from wear bright blue spandex underpants?????

 

[Dark_wraith]

oh and if the wave didnt hurt them, then why on earth would they be scared of water????

 

[pohuist]

Did YOU read my above post? Think about how Nasgul were superior to a regurlar man.

 

[Dark_wraith]

yes i did read your post and it made NO sense. The olog-hai were not just superior to normal trolls. they were FAR superior, hence they would most certainly be described as super.

 

[Dark_wraith]

im not talking about how trolls were superior to other beings. Sauron is superior to a chicken but that doesnt make him super sauron. I am talkin about trolls being superior to other trolls, in this case the olog-hai vs normal trolls. the olog-hai were much more advanced and generally more...well....super.

 

[pohuist]

It made perdect sense to me, if you don't understand something that doesn't equal that it doesn't make sense. If you have questions whether or not the the tidal wave hurt them, reading the book will certainly help. And why they were afraid of water is not a question for me, but for J.R.R. Tolkien. Unfortunately, he is not telling.

You believe that the above qualities make them super trolls and I don't. We have a different opinion on a subject, that's all.

 

[Dark_wraith]

well what would make them super trolls in your eyes?? I cannot remember reading anywhere that the nazgul were afraid of water but i do remember aragorn saying that the water did indeed hurt them.

I will look for the exact page number later tonight.

 

[pohuist]

Originally posted by Dark_wraith
well what would make them super trolls in your eyes?? I cannot remember reading anywhere that the nazgul were afraid of water but i do remember aragorn saying that the water did indeed hurt them.

I will look for the exact page number later tonight.

For waterfobia try UT. The quotes from Tolien is the only way to convince me of something you are stating as fact.

Super trolls vs. normal trolls -- many things, for example,
MUCH much larger in size and/or strenght (like the oversized troll they used in the movie)

You example with chicken doesn't fly
(the analogy is wrong, Sauron will certainly qualify as superchicken)

 

[Confusticated]

pohuist, you admit that these said trolls are superior to normal trolls, yet you say that they are not super-troll in your book.
How so can that be? Does not the prefix super mean "being of superiority"?


Ps: excuse my way of speaking there! I am still in the mode of my RP charactor! hehehe

 

[pohuist]

In my definition (albeit, not dictionary)
Superiority means being better/stronger/wiser etc. than normal
Super- means so much better/stronger/wiser etc. that the original doesn't even come close.

I understand, that superiority has a "super" in it, but the semantics is different. Think about superman vs. man -- able to fly, almost impossible to kill, could overthrow buildings, etc.
I would qualify Olog-hai as super-trolls (as opposed to just a new, more advanced, superior breed/generation), if their qualities vs. trolls will be similar as superman vs. man

 

[Dark_wraith]

*sigh*

I did not mean that sauron would be a bloody super chicken!!!!! lol.

I meant that sauron would NOT be a super sauron because he is not facing off against one of his own race to whom he is superior.

What is UT??? I can see no reason at all for the nazgul to be scared of water if it doesnt hurt them in the least. Fire i can understand. I would run too if a crazy ass ranger was chasin me with sum fire but water???

Nah.

Unless they are like the wicked witch of the west and melt, i can see no danger.

=BeZ=