Were the 💀Nazgul kind of weak?

[Dark_wraith]

Originally posted by pohuist
I would qualify Olog-hai as super-trolls (as opposed to just a new, more advanced, superior breed/generation), if their qualities vs. trolls will be similar as superman vs. man

Spiderman cant fly, would you call him super???

 

[Anamatar IV]

first off-i agree with pohuist. being superior does not mean being super. If one bird is superior over others at catching worms does it mean that he should be oggled for being a super bird.

 

[Confusticated]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
first off-i agree with pohuist. being superior does not mean being super. If one bird is superior over others at catching worms does it mean that he should be oggled for being a super bird.

Well it seems that we all understand eachothers points. I see no point trying to convince anyone that they are wrong...because no one is wrong. It's a matter of how quick one is to use that word super.

 

[Dark_wraith]

yeah but the olog-hai are not just superior in one aspect. If this particular bird was smarter, stronger, faster, harder and could swim, would you call it a super bird then??
That is the same changes as the olog-hai (with swim being replaced by move in sunlight)

 

[Dark_wraith]

Originally posted by Confusticated


Well it seems that we all understand eachothers points. I see no point trying to convince anyone that they are wrong...because no one is wrong. It's a matter of how quick one is to use that word super.

Ok i will settle for that! Hows aboot we chat aboot the ringwraiths again??

 

[pohuist]

Fine with me.
UT is "the book of Unfinished Tales of numenor and middle-earth" by J.R.R.T. Makes an excellent reading. Answers many questions about LOTR. You may find particurlarly interesting the chapter "The Hunt for the Ring" which, among other things, discusses ringwraiths and them being afraid of water.

 

[Anamatar IV]

Are the nazgul saurons best warriors

yes they are--they are so powerful that people cant even fight them. Almost invincible.

 

[Grond]

Dark_wraith, I use the quotes to help you and now I use the quotes to hinder you.

from Unfinished Tales, The Hunt for the Ring

...They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held; they were quite incapable of acting against his will, and if one of them, even the Witch-king their captain, had seized the One Ring, he would have brought it back to his Master, But they had disadvantages, until open war began (for which Sauron was not yet ready). All except the Witch-king were apt to stray when alone by daylight; and all, again save the Witch-King, feared water, and were unwilling, except in dire need, to enter it or to cross streams unless dryshod by a bridge. 3 Moreover, their chief weapon was terror. This was actually greater when they were unclad and invisible; and it was greater also when the were gathered together. So any mission on which they were sent could hardly be conducted with secrecy; while the passage of Anduin and other rivers presented an obstacle. For such resons Sauron long hesitated, since he did not desire that his chief enemies should become aware of his servants' errand...

later in the same chapter
My father nowhere explained the Ringwraiths' fear of water. In the account just cited it is made a chief motive in Sauron's assault on Osgiliath, and it reappears in detailed notes on the movement of the Black Riders in the Shire: thus of the Rider (who was in fact Khamûl of Dol Guldur, see note 1) seen on the far side of Bucklebury Ferry just after the Hobbits had crossed (The Fellowship of the Ring I 5) it is said that "he was well aware that the Ring had crossed the river; but the river was a barrier to his sense of its movement and that the Nazgûl would not touch the "Elvish" waters of Baranduin.

and finally footnote 3 which pertains to the first quote
3 At the Ford of Bruinen only the Witch-king and two others, with the lure of the Ring straight before them, had dared to enter the river; the others were driven into it by Glorfindel and Aragorn. [Author's note.]

 

[Windfola]

Okay, I'll jump into this conversation....

The Ringwraiths (a/k/a Nazgul), in my opinion, are indeed frightening characters, by virtue of their wickedness, their "wraithness" (so, I coined a word ), and their desire to do the will of Sauron, regardless of what death & destruction they might bring about.

Yes, they COULD be foiled--as evidenced by the events at the Ford of Rivendell and when unseated from their winged mounts (one of my favorite phrases came from a description of the Lord of the Nazgul's flying beast: "...and it stank...")--still they were formidable, and not to be trifled with.

The only reason Eowyn and Merry triumphed over the Lord of the Nazgul on the Pelennor Field was that the prophecy of his demise stated that he could not be killed by mortal man. It took a woman and a Hobbit to do the job (bet that put a wrinkle in the old Nazgul's pantyhose, eh?).

Let's just say I wouldn't want to meet a Ringwraith if I were out and about on a dark night! EEEEEEKKKKKK!!!

 

[Silnarrin]

I had always assumed that the Nazgul, being "unnatural", feared and were opposed to natural forces in Middle Earth (i.e., water, fire). That this is why they did not hurry to cross the Bruinen.

Also, that the river was the barrier to a elven realm, and that Ulmo never truly forsook the waters of Arda.

 

[Dark_wraith]

your idea of the elven barrier is similar to mine. i always assumed that the nazgul never crossed because they were scared of the elves.

 

[Anamatar IV]

they were going to cross! Frodo and the ringwraiths were on opposite banks and the wraiths were beckoning frodo to come back. When frodo refused they stepped into the ford and started crossing. But---when an enemy crosses the ford, the ford floods.

 

[Grond]

Just a note of clarificaton. They in this case of the Nazgul getting ready to cross the Ford = 3. The other 6 were driven into the River Bruinen by Glorfindel and Strider and the other hobbits.

 

[Anamatar IV]

but the 3 were gonna cross the river. They started crossing then the boulders and horses and waves trampled them. Then the other 5 drove the last 6 nazgul into the flood/

 

[Lantarion]

I don't think they could have made it across the water. The Witch-King, as was proven already, could withstand water and even fire far better than any of the other Nazgûl, so he might have made it; another thing we must remember is that the Ring, the relic to which Sauron's (and therefore their) power and life-force were bound, was very close at hand. This might have made the Nazgûl a bit more resistant to the things they were 'allergic' to.

 

[Anamatar IV]

but they coundnt have crossed anyways. If the ford hadnt flooded of course they could cross and kill frodo and raid rivindell and all that.

 

[Dark_wraith]

oh right i didnt read my post until just now!! lol. Yeah i know that they did actually try but i always assumed it was the elves that made them hesitate rather than the water.

I didnt know that the river flooded EVERY time an enemy tried to cross. I thought it was just elrond and gandalf who made it happen that 1 time to get frodo across. Still i think that the witch king could have got across.

If i was the witch king, and the ring was a KFC bargain bucket, i dont even think gandalf and elrond could have kept me back!!!

 

[Anamatar IV]

gandalf and elrond made it extra forceful. I have a horrible headache from being in the guild of outcasts all night and im too lazy to look it up.

 

[Grond]

Here you go Anamatar IV.

from The Fellowship of the Ring, Many Meetings
'No,' said Gandalf. 'Their horses must have perished, and without them
they are crippled. But the Ringwraiths themselves cannot be so easily destroyed. However, there is nothing more to fear from them at present. Your friends crossed after the flood had passed; and they found you lying on your face at the top of the bank, with a broken sword under you. The horse was standing guard beside you. You were pale and cold, and they feared that you were dead, or worse. Elrond's folk met them, carrying you slowly towards Rivendell.'

'Who made the flood?' asked Frodo.

'Elrond commanded it,' answered Gandalf. `The river of this valley is
under his power, and it will rise in anger when he has great need to bar the Ford. As soon as the captain of the Ringwraiths rode into the water the flood was released. If I may say so, I added a few touches of my own: you may not have noticed, but some of the waves took the form of great white horses with shining white riders; and there were many rolling and grinding boulders. For a moment I was afraid that we had let loose too fierce a wrath, and the flood would get out of hand and wash you all away. There is great vigour in the waters that come down from the snows of the Misty Mountains.'

 

[Anamatar IV]

like i said--the ford rises when emenies are approaching or elrond has great need for it to.