What 📔book are you reading right now?

I just bought the History of Middle Earth box set as a tax season present! Excited to dive into that!

Is that the three volume India paper version?

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

Is that the three volume India paper version?

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It is three volumes and the paper is super thin, so I believe so!

Finished Brave New World. I think I'll try my hand at Stephen King's Dark Tower books next.

CheriptheRipper said:

Finished Brave New World. I think I'll try my hand at Stephen King's Dark Tower books next.

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What did you think of BNW?
And you've already read 1984, right?
Which do you prefer? (not which do you prefer to be depressed by 😄...I mean which do you think was the better story, and also better written?)

Deimos said:

What did you think of BNW?

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Just okay, you were right about the quality of the main character's story. Not quite as good as 1984, I preferred Orwell's by a long mile.
I feel like it should have been longer, it just ended very abruptly (I did read a bit of Huxley's notes about the ending and the supposed third alternative).
I noticed that I somehow got most of my enjoyment from the conversation near the end between John and Mustapha, much like O'Brien and Winston's convo.
I guess I just appreciate that type of exposition/summary of the book's ideology, or rather the characters' differing ideologies.
I'd also like to add that I think I'm a bit too simple of a soul for these type of books (Ford's identity for example somehow alluded me).
Can go more in-depth but don't think it's worth it, the book was just okay. Nothing more.

Deimos said:

And you've already read 1984, right?
Which do you prefer? (not which do you prefer to be depressed by 😄...I mean which do you think was the better story, and also better written?)

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Did you just forget our lengthy 1984 convo 🥲
I didn't think BNW was depressing, I also fail to see why it isn't classed as utopian.
I prefer 1984, if asked I would always recommend it in favor of BNW.
1984 is grim, dirty and gives this oppressing feeling. BNW does as well, just not all the time, and not nearly as good.
I will say however that I might appreciate BNW more after a re-read.

CheriptheRipper said:

Just okay, you were right about the quality of the main character's story. Not quite as good as 1984, I preferred Orwell's by a long mile.
I feel like it should have been longer, it just ended very abruptly (I did read a bit of Huxley's notes about the ending and the supposed third alternative).
I noticed that I somehow got most of my enjoyment from the conversation near the end between John and Mustapha, much like O'Brien and Winston's convo.
I guess I just appreciate that type of exposition/summary of the book's ideology, or rather the characters' differing ideologies.
I'd also like to add that I think I'm a bit too simple of a soul for these type of books (Ford's identity for example somehow alluded me).
Can go more in-depth but don't think it's worth it, the book was just okay. Nothing more.


Did you just forget our lengthy 1984 convo 🥲
I didn't think BNW was depressing, I also fail to see why it isn't classed as utopian.
I prefer 1984, if asked I would always recommend it in favor of BNW.
1984 is grim, dirty and gives this oppressing feeling. BNW does as well, just not all the time, and not nearly as good.
I will say however that I might appreciate BNW more after a re-read.

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I'm in too many convos😄.... actually I remembered most of our 1984/O'Brien convo...just didn't want to go back and re-read it.
I thought both 1984 and BNW were classed as dystopian?....
You didn't think the "baby factories" were depressing? Especially how they programmed the Epsilon toddlers to hate music and "pretty things"?
I thought that was horrifying; the genetically engineering and behavioral programming, i.e., the "manufacturing" of lower social classes for the sole purpose of having slave labor sans the chains and whips. ....sanitized slavery.

I just started Hey God. Hey John. It's from the author's Facebook posts about God and his faith. It's a quick read and I've enjoyed the humor of the first few entries. I'm disappointed in the quality of the book, though. I started reading it last night and already pages are falling out.

The Latter Days At Colditz.

‘Freedom’ by Jeremy Griffith. A real eye opener to our flawed ‘human’ development and the way natural evolution did us no favours. He explains the most important questions on the Human Condition: Why we are ‘conditioned’ the way we are, and how to overcome it.
A much needed addendum to the ‘Origin of the Species’.

My biology study book :')

Starbrow said:

I just started Hey God. Hey John. It's from the author's Facebook posts about God and his faith. It's a quick read and I've enjoyed the humor of the first few entries. I'm disappointed in the quality of the book, though. I started reading it last night and already pages are falling out.

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Paperback or hardcover? Though even most hardbacks have glued-in signatures these days.

Deimos said:

I thought both 1984 and BNW were classed as dystopian?....

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They are

Deimos said:

You didn't think the "baby factories" were depressing? Especially how they programmed the Epsilon toddlers to hate music and "pretty things"?
I thought that was horrifying; the genetically engineering and behavioral programming, i.e., the "manufacturing" of lower social classes for the sole purpose of having slave labor sans the chains and whips. ....sanitized slavery.

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No not at all, it seemed quite natural to me despite being anything but haha
I mean if we're talking optimal efficiency for a society, BNW's class system doesn't seem horrifying to me at all.
If anything, when they started talking about finding the ideal difference between the maturity of a kid's body and its mind I found it quite enlightening.

I also can't think of it as slave labor, because if you're looking at it from that angle, every class from the Alpha's to the Epsilons were programmed to do what they had to, slight differences in privileges but they were all cogs in the machine.

I think I'm quite desensitized to that electric shock stuff so it didn't bother me.

CheriptheRipper said:

They are


No not at all, it seemed quite natural to me despite being anything but haha
I mean if we're talking optimal efficiency for a society, BNW's class system doesn't seem horrifying to me at all.
If anything, when they started talking about finding the ideal difference between the maturity of a kid's body and its mind I found it quite enlightening.

I also can't think of it as slave labor, because if you're looking at it from that angle, every class from the Alpha's to the Epsilons were programmed to do what they had to, slight differences in privileges but they were all cogs in the machine.

I think I'm quite desensitized to that electric shock stuff so it didn't bother me.

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Well, try looking at from this angle....
1) Nature is neither redundant nor wasteful....she's actually brutally efficient.

2) Humans are born with the capacity/ability to think rationally, to make decisions, even if that decision results in one's senseless death (e.g. suicide).
Not all "self inflicted" deaths are senseless. Consider a mother who dies (in whatever manner) to save her child.
Brute animals are not capable of rational thought. They do not commit senseless acts of self-immolation. They will however, act instinctively to "save the species". Hence, a female animal will act to save her offspring, even if the act results in her own death.

3) It makes no sense for nature to endow an "animal" the capacity for rational thought and also the capacity to act freely ("I choose this and not that, even tho' I know 'this' is bad for me and will do me harm") if it's not going to be exercised (used).
The appendix used to serve a useful purpose in the human body; it no longer does. (It does however continue to cause more than annoying mischief).
Some people are born without an appendix and live normal healthy lives. Eventually (I think) it will be a rarity for someone to have an appendix.

4) Therefore, rational thought and the ability to act freely are characteristics proper to human beings. To remove or prevent the exercise of those abilities is a monstrous violation of the human person. It is why slavery is pure evil.
(Yep, an institution that has been around as long as humans and will keep cropping up, even when we colonize other planets. There will always be people who think they can own/order about other people. It's called the libido dominandi.)

That is why the breeding program in BNW is horrifying.
Even the Orcs, twisted versions of elves first bred by Morgoth, could act freely, that is they could exercise free will.
It is irrelevant that acting freely (disobeying orders) might get them murdered.

There's some ambiguity about exactly how much free will orcs had; witness what happened to them when the Ring was destroyed. Of course, Tolkien was torn about them, especially later in life, when trying to work out the philosophical implications of his original world-building, for instance changing their origins from elves to men.

I never got around to Brave New World, for some reason, but came across a copy the other day, so I suppose I should tackle it.


I will say 1984 was a kind of bible in my teens -- so much of it was directly applicable to my high school experience. 😄

That and Bill, the Galactic Hero.

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

There's some ambiguity about exactly how much free will orcs had; witness what happened to them when the Ring was destroyed. Of course, Tolkien was torn about them, especially later in life, when trying to work out the philosophical implications of his original world-building, for instance changing their origins from elves to men.

I never got around to Brave New World, for some reason, but came across a copy the other day, so I suppose I should tackle it.


I will say 1984 was a kind of bible in my teens -- so much of it was directly applicable to my high school experience. 😄

That and Bill, the Galactic Hero.

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Yes, I had to look up about Orcs and free will and there is not a little duscussion about it.
But I only used it as an example, and it's from a fantasy world as well, so it is not necessary for my argument, merely illustrative.
Howvever, genetic breeding of humans is not fantasy. It's not yet done as it is in BNW, but it is on our own horizon.

I have both 1984 and BNW on my shelves, but it is 1984 that I keep rereading.
I occassionaly pick up BNW but it is only to reread the parts (I kid you not) on the breeding and programming of the different social classes.
That section strikes me not unlike reading a short horror story.
I guess the preference is because (imo) 1984 is so much better written than BNW.

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

There's some ambiguity about exactly how much free will orcs had; witness what happened to them when the Ring was destroyed.

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I'm confused, I read the lotr books but didn't they just scatter?
I've always thought their instincts won over the fear they had for their masters. Looking at when they purposely ignored (part of) their instructions.

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

I never got around to Brave New World, for some reason, but came across a copy the other day, so I suppose I should tackle it.


I will say 1984 was a kind of bible in my teens -- so much of it was directly applicable to my high school experience. 😄

That and Bill, the Galactic Hero.

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Hope we didn't spoil anything fam, and enjoy reading through it.
1984 was applicable to your high school experience 🤔

I’m now reading The Two Towers now for the first time. Just finished The Fellowship this morning.

One of my favourite scenes from the movie was Sam saying to Frodo that he made a promise to Gandalf, but that wasn’t in the book.

Better late than never! 🙂

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

Better late than never! 🙂

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Better latté than water.