What did 🧙Gandalf mean by 'Flame of Anor?' (merged threads)

[Úlairi]

Originally posted by BluestEye
But this is exactly my point, Ulairi
He doesn't say that he is the Servant of the Fire of Anor. He says he is the weilder of the Flame of Anor, so he may suggest he has the "Flame" of Wisdom that comes from the knowledge of the Underground Library of "Minar Tirith" (Once "Minas Anor", or simply "Anor").

BluestEye

BluestEye - I would have to agree with you on that one BluestEye, I cannot find a hole in your argument therefore I have to accept it as a possibility. But then why would Gandalf be a servant of the 'Secret Fire'. IMO, it sounds like the 'Flame of Anor' and the 'Secret Fire' sound like the same thing. I do not believe that Gandalf would be a servant of wisdom.

Originally posted by Grond
I must reexamine my position. I overlooked the fact that Gandalf said "wield". That can only mean (IMHO) that he had a weapon. The only weapons we know that Gandalf could have wielded would have been Glamdring or Narya. Given that the Ring he wears is the Ring of Fire and Anor means Sun... I would have to say that he is referring to his Ring of Fire.

Actually Grond, there are multiple meanings to the word 'wield'.

wield:1. to hold and use (a weapon or tool) 2. exert or command (power etc.)
The Illlustrated Oxford Dictionary Published 1998

I would have say that Tolkien was referring to the first definition given here. Which was weapon or tool. I know what you would say and I would definitely agree that Narya could be both a tool and a weapon. But if Tolkien was referring to a 'tool' than our options open a little. Perhaps it is what BluestEye said (though I doubt it) that it was wisdom and I would have to agree that that is a definite tool. Gandalf said that he is the wielder of the flame of Anor i.e. the Sun, could he be referring to Arien, the Maia of Fire? Any suggestions?

 

[Rangerdave]

Wield?

Does not the sword in fact wield the fencer? The flame imperishable may very well wield Gandalf. But I would think that the major threat to the Balrog is the flame served rather than the flame wielded.

RD

 

[Úlairi]

So you're saying that the flame of Anor wielded Gandalf? That's interesting Rangerdave. So, that would help the argument, as you have stated Rangerdave, that Iluvatar used or 'wielded' Gandalf and Gandalf was his tool or weapon. Hmmmm, interesting, I will ponder this for a while.

 

[Elu Thingol]

When Gandalf says he wields the flame of Anor I think he is refering of his sword Glamdring. We know from his battle on The Bridge of Khazad-dum that Glamdring glitters white. " From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming. Glamdring glittered white in answer."(Fellowship of the Ring pg.429). This glittering could be considered a flame.

Flame-1 : the glowing gaseous part of a fire
2 a : a state of blazing combustion *the car burst into flame* b : a condition or appearance suggesting a flame or burning: as (1) : burning zeal or passion (2) : a strong reddish orange color
3 : BRILLIANCE, BRIGHTNESS
4 : SWEETHEART


It definetly has brilliance and it could suggest a flame or burning. Also, we do not know where Glamdring was made. It could have been made in Minas Anor which would make one of its titles "Flame of Anor"

Also, Gandalf telling the Balrog that he wields this flame is a challenge meaning he will use it against the Balrog. And since he uses Glamdring it is probably the flame.

 

[Úlairi]

And yet so easy to shoot down your argument. Glamdring was not forged it Anor, it was made by the Dwarves of Middle-earth for battle with the Orcs.

 

[Legolam]

I like the idea that he is weilding the power of the sun. I sort of took it to mean that some sort of power from the sun was trapped inside Narya.

This sort of fits if you take Mithrandir2003's definition of flame:

b : a condition or appearance suggesting a flame or burning: as (1) : burning zeal or passion

The power and passion of the sun is contained in the ring, giving it's wearer some of those strengths

 

[Elu Thingol]

Posted by Ulairi

And yet so easy to shoot down your argument. Glamdring was not forged it Anor, it was made by the Dwarves of Middle-earth for battle with the Orcs.

What you Ulairi no evidence???? MMM... Suprising. Give me that and I will be satisfied until then your post proves NOTHING!

 

[Rangerdave]

What? No Evil Laughter?

Originally posted by Mithrandir2003
Posted by Ulairi


What you Ulairi no evidence???? MMM... Suprising. Give me that and I will be satisfied until then your post proves NOTHING!

You forgot to include the evil laughter. What are evil kids coming to these days when they don't ever remember the evil laughter. Back in my day we knew the value of evil laughter by golly.

Excuse me, I've got to go yell at the neighbor kids again.
Hey you kids, get off my yard!
(insert evil laughter here.)

RD

 

[Tyaronumen]

Originally posted by Ulairi
And yet so easy to shoot down your argument. Glamdring was not forged it Anor, it was made by the Dwarves of Middle-earth for battle with the Orcs.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet that Glamdring was an ELVEN blade, forged in Gondolin.

 

[Elu Thingol]

I was thinking about putting in evil laughter but decided against, but since you want to hear it here it is.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Posted by Tyaronumen

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned yet that Glamdring was an ELVEN blade, forged in Gondolin.

You have no proof. It is said that Glamdring has runes on it, but this proves nothing since after the creation of runes by Rumil they have been widely used by other races. I don't know how you found it was discovered in Gondolin, I pretty sure it wasn't.

 

[Úlairi]

A commendable effort Mithrandir2003. Very good, bravo! There is no proof, you are right. Btw, I was wrong about it being forged by Dwarves, it was Elves, you are right. However Mithrandir2003, show us the proof that Glamdring was made in Anor, and I'll believe you.

 

[Elu Thingol]

I was just stating a theory, a possibility. I did not say there was proof. I am just saying that there is no proof against it. So it is possible that Glamdring was what Gandalf was talking about.

 

[Úlairi]

Plausible yet improbable.

 

[Elu Thingol]

prove its improbable

 

[Rangerdave]

Okay you two play nice. Good boys.

My question to all those with the ability and skill to work with Tolkien's languages, has anyone tried to translate what Glamdring means. That might offer a clue. Does the name denote any kind of flame?

If it does not, I would believe that this may be barking up the wrong tree.

Let me know
RD

 

[Elu Thingol]

The meaning of Glamdring is foe-hammer, but the literal meaning is noise-host hammer.

 

[Úlairi]

Originally posted by Mithrandir2003
prove its improbable

I could write one hundred ways as to why it is not. Anor is Aman, or, to be more specific, Valinor. No Orcs would have been present in Aman, or, foes for that matter. Why would the smiths of Anor have forged a sword to defeat foes when there weren't any to defeat? Answer me that one Mithy-baby.

Originally posted by Mithrandir2003
The meaning of Glamdring is foe-hammer, but the literal meaning is noise-host hammer.

Glad to see that you didn't get that one wrong Mithrandir2003.

 

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Ulairi

Why would the smiths of Anor have forged a sword to defeat foes when there weren't any to defeat? Answer me that one Mithy-baby.

Okay, by that line of reasoning, why did the Smiths of Anor forge any weapons at all? No enemies. But I seem to remember that the followers of Feanor put their hands on quite a few in a big hurry.

Riddle me that batman.

RD

 

[BluestEye]

As far as I remember, the Valinorean Elves forged their weapons after Melkor was loosed to walk among them after his 3 ages of imprissonment. He had a plan to make the Elves believe they are prissoners of the Valar instead of their guests, and many of the Elves believed his lies. But many kept having their faith in the Valar and the Elves were devided into many groups. At this time the first Elven-Weapons were forged in Aman, and they were meant to be used against other Elves and against the Valar themselves if it will be nessesary.

Bluest Eye

 

[Rangerdave]

Excellent answer BluestEye. Spot on.

But I threw that in there just to yank on Ulairi's chain. His last post was such a breach of his usual logical approach that I felt it necessary to rib him a little. Just to keep him on his toes so to speak.

Thanks again for the interjecting some valuable information into what seems to be devolving into a real pi***ng contest here.

RD