What Happened to Maglor?

[grendel]

The last we see of him, at least in the Silmarillion, he has gained possession of one of the Silmarils, which burned his hand (because at this point he's a really bad fellow) so he threw it into the ocean.

"I immediately regret my decision!!"

And thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves.

In theory, he could do this forever, or at least until the end of Arda, since he is one of the Firstborn. I have a feeling, though that his soul (fea?) would have faded away to nothing as he pined for the Silmaril.
OR, he would have been taken out by the wreck of Numenor later on, assuming he stayed in the same general area (which at that time was Beleriand, yes?)

This is all just speculation; if anyone has information from the ancillary writing, I would be happy to hear about it.

 

[Elassar]

According to my research the best answer I could find was: " unable to bear the suffering, maglor cast his silmaril into the sea. Thereafter, he wandered the shores of the world singing laments of the silmaril, until he faded from memory though the circumstances and date of his death, if it ever happened at all, are unknown. "

 

[Elthir]

'The remaining two Silmarils are regained from the Iron Crown — only to be lost. The last two sons of Fëanor, compelled by their oath, steal them, and are destroyed by them, casting themselves into the sea, and the pits of the earth. (Letter 131, 1951)

This seems to say Maglor cast himself into the sea, though the later version of The Lay of Leithian (below) appears to say that Maglor/Maelor passed to "endless lamentation" (compare to the Quenta Silmarillion description) before being cast into the sea.

. . . save Maelor* son of Fëanor,
forgotten harper, singer doomed,
who young when Laurelin yet bloomed
to endless lamentation passed
and in the tombless sea was cast.

It's possible that more than one tradition was to be recorded in the fuller Legendarium, but in any event, this seems a perfect case (to my mind) for some excellent haziness!

 

[Eljorahir]

Some say that after many ages of singing his lamentations along the coasts of the world's oceans he finally achieved his peace of mind, and he lives on to this day and now operates a chain of casual clothing stores common at shopping malls around the U.S.
Of course...Maglor's GAP

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Some say that after many ages of singing his lamentations along the coasts of the world's oceans he finally achieved his peace of mind, and he lives on to this day and now operates a chain of casual clothing stores common at shopping malls around the U.S.
Of course...Maglor's GAP

A similar fate to that of Haleth, yet she went into the glove industry instead...
Look it up-- truly exists.

 

[Eljorahir]

A similar fate to that of Haleth, yet she went into the glove industry instead...
Look it up-- truly exists.

I looked it up. It does exist!

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I looked it up. It does exist!

Indeed! But in all honesty-- Maglor just sort of faded away in the midst of lamentation.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Indeed! But in all honesty-- Maglor just sort of faded away in the midst of lamentation.

A sad and unfortunate turn indeed that he had...

I've always imagined that if he still lived till this day, and repented enough, then mayhap he would have gained admittance into Valinor again, by the Grace of the Valar. After all, the Doom of Mandos was lifted after the First Age. Unless his féa faded beyond the Western Shores into the Halls of Mandos before that...which then opens up a different path regarding his potential fate.

 

[Elthir]

"New" description from JRRT, extracted from the text Concerning The Hoard:

"The other two Silmarils were also taken by the Valar from the crown of Morgoth. But the last surviving sons of Feänor (Maedros and Maglor), in a despairing attempt to carry out the Oath, stole them again. But they were tormented by them, and at last they perished each with a jewel: one in a fiery cleft in the earth, and one in the sea." JRRT, late 1963 or 1964

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

"New" description from JRRT, extracted from Concerning The Hoard:

"The other two Silmarils were also taken by the Valar from the crown of Morgoth. But the last surviving sons of Feänor (Maedros and Maglor), in a despairing attempt to carry out the Oath, stole them again. But they were tormented by them, and at last they perished each with a jewel: one in a fiery cleft in the earth, and one in the sea." JRRT, late 1963 or 1964

Ah...so Maglor ends up in the Halls of Mandos also, it seems...

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Interesting, Elthir. I really need to get hold of a copy.

Anything about the Druedain in there?

 

[Ent]

This seems to say Maglor cast himself into the sea, though the later version of The Lay of Leithian (below) appears to say that Maglor/Maelor passed to "endless lamentation" (compare to the Quenta Silmarillion description) before being cast into the sea.



It's possible that more than one tradition was to be recorded in the fuller Legendarium, but in any event, this seems a perfect case (to my mind) for some excellent haziness!

"Excellent haziness.."! Such a splendid phrase.

 

[Elthir]

Interesting, Elthir. I really need to get hold of a copy. Anything about the Druedain in there?

No Druedain in the transcription (of the handwritten part) that I've seen SES!

There's a link to the transcription in a thread over at the Barrow Downs forums. The thread is titled: "Concerning... 'The Hoard'" revealed

🐾

 

[Ent]

excellent haziness!

Having difficulty getting over this one.
@Elthir , may I borrow this?

There is nothing like the "Excellent Haziness of the Great Halls of Speculation"..!!

 

[Ent]

By the way, thanks everyone for the stuff on the Silmarils. I was pondering this just a couple days ago without having the time to chase it all down. Now I've got some reference points to get started with.

 

[ZehnWaters]

Ah...so Maglor ends up in the Halls of Mandos also, it seems...

According to the prophecy of the North he, his brothers, and his father will stay there too. They made an Oath via Eru; none of the Valar can override that. Hence their statement that "There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you."

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

According to the prophecy of the North he, his brothers, and his father will stay there too. They made an Oath via Eru; none of the Valar can override that. Hence their statement that "There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you."

So the entire House of Féanor is condemned to stay within the Halls of Mandos till the End of Arda? I thought it was only Féanáro Curufinwe himself, and that his sons would be re-embodied when Námo willed it...is it not so?

 

[Elthir]

Elthir, may I borrow this?

Sure! But I need it back by next Friday

ramble alert

My meaning there is about internal haziness, kind of like how certain characters within the world
(as Tolkien once put to paper) could later mistake the name Galadriel as containing a tree word.

Sindarin galað, Nandorin galad, and other reasons

Another example would be the two tales about the Elessar Stone. Which is True? In any case, both versions are "true" in the sense that they exist within the history of Middle-earth -- compared to Tolkien simply changing his mind in a draft text.

Thus, as I say, it's my opinion that the Maglor example seems a perfect scenario for internal haziness: one text could say X, another (maybe a poem) say Y, because the scenario arguably lends itself to a measure of uncertainty, as the ages pass. But as I also say, I have no proof that this reflects Tolkien's mindset about Maglor.

Anyway.

 

[Ent]

Sure! But I need it back by next Friday

ramble alert

My meaning there is about internal haziness, kind of like how certain characters within the world
(as Tolkien once put to paper) could later mistake the name Galadriel as containing a tree word.

Sindarin galað, Nandorin galad, and other reasons

Another example would be the two tales about the Elessar Stone. Which is True? In any case, both versions are "true" in the sense that they exist within the history of Middle-earth -- compared to Tolkien simply changing his mind in a draft text.

Thus, as I say, it's my opinion that the Maglor example seems a perfect scenario for internal haziness: one text could say X, another (maybe a poem) say Y, because the scenario arguably lends itself to a measure of uncertainty, as the ages pass. But as I also say, I have no proof that this reflects Tolkien's mindset about Maglor.

Anyway.

Precisely.
I've already stolen and reapplied it, I'm afraid, being too hasty to await your response.

We now have the Great Halls of Hazy Speculation. This actually applies "hazy" in the same, and also a bit broader sense, I'm afraid. But it suffices...

I shall return it on Friday at the appointed time.

 

[ZehnWaters]

So the entire House of Féanor is condemned to stay within the Halls of Mandos till the End of Arda? I thought it was only Féanáro Curufinwe himself, and that his sons would be re-embodied when Námo willed it...is it not so?

Nope. The full prophecy is as follows:

Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Eä, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.

I suppose one COULD argue it's a curse placed on ALL of the Noldor but the severity of the crime lay more heavily on the House of Fëanor so I just kind of assumed they'd be the ones it applied to most. Also we know that Finrod got reembodied.