Tolkien Artwork

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

Do birds eat toads?
(And don't anyone reply "Oh toadally." 🙄)

That would be very untoward.

 

[Radaghast]

Actually (pax to Radaghast) you did use unlike correctly. And unalike is also correct.
Both are used as adjectives, predicate adjectives to be precise. The follow the verb "are" ..."They[are] alike and unlike."
Radaghast I believe is using unlike only as it has been used lately in the realm of social media as a verb....you "unlike" something.
But that is actually a misuse (no surprise there) ...the verb that should be used is dislike.

No, I was using it in the sense of the opposite of 'like', as in 'similar to.' But the proper opposite of 'alike' is 'unalike'.

 

[Radaghast]

View attachment 49805
The quest to find a smaller hat for Frodo? 🫤

Just noticed something else weird with this picture. Frodo is clearly walking alongside Aragorn. Yet, his foot seems to be against the tree, almost as if he's coming through the tree. Very odd. Seems like a mistake AI would make. Makes one wonder... 🤔

 

[Radaghast]

Another piece by the artist who did the coronation scene, this one depicting the Council of Elrond. Have to wonder why both Boromir and Faramir in the other piece are sporting fades. Also, what's going on with Glorfindel, who is clearly described as having "golden hair", and who appears to be looking at (and even beckoning) Sam 🤔 The fellow sitting next to Erestor (who looks a bit like Liv Tyler) is supposed to be Galdor, I guess, but the text looks like 'Grldor' or 'Grudor' (and he's looking at the camera, for some reason, as is Gloin). Lastly, it's weird that Frodo is at the center of the table.

Oh, and Sam 😆

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

Gildor, I guess, but the text looks like 'Grldor' or 'Grudor'.

That's 'Galdor'. An elf of the Havens sent from Círdan.

Definitely no idea what's going on with Glorfindel's hair colour...!

Boromir's short haircut reminded me somewhat of how Norman knights in the 11th century would cut their hair: shaved at the back and longer at the front.

 

[Radaghast]

That's 'Galdor'. An elf of the Havens sent from Círdan.

Yeah, I realized that later. Thanks.

 

[Deimos]

No, I was using it in the sense of the opposite of 'like', as in 'similar to.' But the proper opposite of 'alike' is 'unalike'.

But what about Tolkien's use of "unlike" instead of "unalike"?

 

[Radaghast]

But what about Tolkien's use of "unlike" instead of "unalike"?

It's correct because in your example he's contrasting it with 'like', not 'unalike'. I think 'alike/unalike' are rather superfluous to the lexicon.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

This might be a better subject for a thread somewhere, rather than the Art thread. 😉

 

[Radaghast]

This might be a better subject for a thread somewhere, rather than the Art thread. 😉

Fair enough, SES.

Here's another scene that never happened, unless I'm misremembering and Gandalf did leave Bilbo to awkwardly stand in front of Beorn by himself? 🤔

Sam Gamegie?

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

Sam Gamegie?

It's the French spelling of the name.

 

[Deimos]

It's the French spelling of the name.

How can a surname have a different spelling just because the language changes?
I bet the artist still spells "Tolkien" correctly.
I live in the American Southwest where Spanish surnames abound..Ramirez, Garcia, Sanchez, Lopez, Mendoza, Rodriguez, Flores, Morales, Gonzalez...
None of those names are changed from their original spellings just because the local population speaks English.
I don't change any of those spellings.
(I think that artist has... issues 🤨)

 

[Glorfindel Goldtress]

How can a surname have a different spelling just because the language changes?

Because "Gamgee" in French is pronounced very differently and loses the philological significance Tolkien intended the name to have. "Gamegie" as pronounced by the French sounds much closer to English "Gamgee", retaining the intended philological punnery Tolkien wrote. As I'm not personally a French speaker like Servo here is, I can't explain why that is, but I do know Tolkien was involved in international publications and knew how things should be organized in other languages to keep his intent at the forefront.

 

[Deimos]

Because "Gamgee" in French is pronounced very differently and loses the philological significance Tolkien intended the name to have. "Gamegie" as pronounced by the French sounds much closer to English "Gamgee", retaining the intended philological punnery Tolkien wrote. As I'm not personally a French speaker like Servo here is, I can't explain why that is, but I do know Tolkien was involved in international publications and knew how things should be organized in other languages to keep his intent at the forefront.

I don't buy it...What does Gamegie mean in French?
But Squinty will have une crise de nerf ** if we go off topic on to "word play" again, so I'll let it go.

**

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

How can a surname have a different spelling just because the language changes?
I bet the artist still spells "Tolkien" correctly.
I live in the American Southwest where Spanish surnames abound..Ramirez, Garcia, Sanchez, Lopez, Mendoza, Rodriguez, Flores, Morales, Gonzalez...
None of those names are changed from their original spellings just because the local population speaks English.
I don't change any of those spellings.
(I think that artist has... issues 🤨)

There are a few variations of the characters' names depending on the book translation version.

Here 'sagace' means 'wise'. It can be difficult to adapt names which have meaning. Do we keep the English 'wise' in Samwise as it is, or translate to a word that means 'wise' in the other language?

It seems to me that Gamegie/Gamgie is merely written that way so it is more obvious to the reader how the name is pronounced. Whether that was a good or bad choice for the translator to make is up to the individual to decide.

 

[Deimos]

My quibble about changing the spelling of Gamgee to Gamegie is this:
In Letter 184 Tolkien explains that near Birmingham, (where he spent his childhood) "gamgee" (or "gamgee-tissue") was a colloquial local word for surgical cotton-wool, invented by Dr. Joseph Sampson Gamgee.
The "word pun" in the story is his linking together the families of Cotton and Gamgee .
So unless Gamegie is the French word for 'cotton" (and I'm pretty certain it is not) then I can see no reason for changing the spelling.

If it is pronunciation matter (problem?) then the French readers merely have to learn to pronounce it the English way in the same way I have learned to pronounce "foreign" surnames. E.g. in Classical music:

François Couperin -- Koo-PRAHN ... (not KOO -per-in)
Richard Wagner -- VAHG -ner ... (not WAG-ner)
Claude Debussy -- Duh-bwee-SEE ... (not da - BUSS' -ee)
Frédéric Chopin -- SHOH-pen ... (not CHOP - pin )
Georges Bizet --Bee - ZAY ... (not Bih - ZET or BYE - zet)

If I can learn to do it -- and without changing the spelling -- so can the French.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Another good subject for a separate thread.

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

Vert bois le Grand - demeure de Thranduil
(Greenwood the Great - dwelling of Thranduil)
by David Greset

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/zPmm54

 

[Server Room Gremlin]

Gondolin - Tolkien
by David Greset

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/lD4qYY

 

[Deimos]

Another good subject for a separate thread.

We are a recalcitrant lot, are we not? 😒