When did 🧝Galadriel grow mallorn trees?

TheManInTheMoon said:

This is just a poor excuse Olorgando.

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It's simply the historical fact of JRRT's writing.
Most of us would have been happier if JRRT had not been the master of the "Unfinished Tales". Or perhaps not, when I think of some of his "later writings".
Write your own "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" if you like (as mentioned in other threads, some people have constructed private versions of Middle-earth's history, picking and choosing). There's certainly a ton of fan-fiction around - which, as one commentator suggested, includes Christopher Tolkien's 1977 Silmarillion; with a major difference: it had in principle authorized by JRRT.

And yet Christopher said he would've published significantly a different work if he had taken more time.

No matter how different, the character of Galadriel would've still been nonsense. Only for so much Christopher could make it more consistent. It's impossible to create a complete consistent narrative of Galadriel. Unless if we discard some writings and reconcile bunch of different writings together and ALSO make our own assumptions. For instance there was one guy on tumblr who said Galadriel was going through a traumatized and identity crisis phase after Alqualonde and desired to stay out of blood shedding as much as possible. Or like another guy said Galadriel was wise enough to understand her realm would get destroyed and she will get killed if she had established a realm in First Age. However, no matter what, you are still going to discard some stuff such as the character of Amdir and the possibility of Celebrimbor as the founder of Eregion if you want to have a consistent Galadriel.

Let's not do that. I'm tired of assumption and cross sourcing multiple different versions together. I'm tired of fanfiction. It speaks volumes how weakly written a character is if you need to 'amend' it by heavy fanfiction.

Olorgando said:

It's imply the historical fact of JRRT's writing.
Most of us would have been happier if JRRT had not been the master of the "Unfinished Tales". Or perhaps not, when I think of some of his "later writings".
Write your own "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" if you like (as mentioned in other threads, some people have constructed private versions of Middle-earth's history, picking and choosing). There's certainly a ton of fan-fiction around - which, as One commentator suggested, includes Christopher Tolkien's 1977 Silmarillion; with a major difference: it had in principle authorized by JRRT.

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It's what I've done at this point. I've got two versions. One for the "canon" timeline and one for my AU.
Celeborn is a Sinda who's wife left him with their son, Amroth, in the former (as we learn was VERY briefly considered in NoME) and he's a Teleri of Aman who crosses over to M-E with Galadriel after the Rebellion in the latter.

TheManInTheMoon said:

And yet Christopher said he would've published significantly a different work if he had taken more time.

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Meh, what were Tolkien's final thoughts on any issue? I think publishing all of the notes allows us to piece together our own "canon'. I rather prefer it that way at this point.

TheManInTheMoon said:

Unless if we discard some writings and reconcile bunch of different writings together and ALSO make our own assumptions. For instance there was one guy on tumblr who said Galadriel was going through a traumatized and identity crisis phase after Alqualonde and desired to stay out of blood shedding as much as possible. Or like another guy said Galadriel was wise enough to understand her realm would get destroyed and she will get killed if she had established a realm in First Age. However, no matter what, you are still going to discard some stuff such as the character of Amdir and the possibility of Celebrimbor as the founder of Eregion if you want to have a consistent Galadriel.

Let's not do that. I'm tired of assumption and cross sourcing multiple different versions together. I'm tired of fanfiction. It speaks volumes how weakly written a character is if you need to 'amend' it by heavy fanfiction.

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Again, most of this is people taking different versions of unfinished backgrounds. If you take purely what's published in LotR (the only true "canon") there's, at best, one or two inconsistencies that are easily retconned.

TheManInTheMoon said:

The most overrated character ever. And this comes from someone who was one of the greatest Galadriel fans of all time and spent years praising her. Only for so long one can fool themselves...

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What... she told you 'NO' when you made a pass at her? 😄

Halasían said:

What... she told you 'NO' when you made a pass at her? 😄

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I'm not Celebrimbor.

TheManInTheMoon said:

I'm not Celebrimbor.

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Yeah, that much is obvious. Celebrimbor had some class.

Let's try to keep it civil, gentlemen.

Halasían said:

Yeah, that much is obvious. Celebrimbor had some class.

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Celebrimbor should've killed Galadriel when Annatar persuaded him to revolt against her.

TheManInTheMoon said:

Celebrimbor should've killed Galadriel when Annatar persuaded him to revolt against her.

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And together, they should have physically humiliated Tar-Ancalime, making her learn her place, knowing that she's not a qualified queen at all. I couldn't believe that JRRT made such lousy role, squeezing her people during all her reign, yet ending her life up so peacefully without any pain, unlike the other villains such as Sauron or Feanor who at least got what they deserved.

Hisoka Morrow said:

And together, they should have physically humiliated Tar-Ancalime, making her learn her place, knowing that she's not a qualified queen at all. I couldn't believe that JRRT made such lousy role, squeezing her people during all her reign, yet ending her life up so peacefully without any pain, unlike the other villains such as Sauron or Feanor who at least got what they deserved.

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I still feel like he screwed over all of the Ruling Queens because they all ended up being terrible people or usurped (and almost made a terrible person).

Olorgando said:

. I found your letter of 25 Jan 1971 (no. 320) in Humphrey Carpenter's book. Conceded, I thought he had commented on this "similarity" earlier.

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This was in reference to Galadriel being likened to Mary, mother of Jesus.
There is an earlier reference:
"I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic. The latter 'fact' perhaps cannot be deduced; though one critic (by letter) asserted that the invocations of Elbereth, and the character of Galadriel as directly described (or through the words of Gimli and Sam) were clearly related to Catholic devotion to Mary."
Letter 213 (1958)
The 'critic' referred to is probably Father Robert Murray, who:
"compared the image of Galadriel to that of the Virgin Mary"
Tolkien wrote to him:
"It was wonderful to get a long letter from you this morning..... I am sorry if casual words of mine have made you labour to criticize my work. But, to tell you the truth, though praise (or what is not quite the same thing, and better, expressions of pleasure) is pleasant, I have been cheered specially by what you have said, this time and before, because you are more perceptive, especially in some directions, than any one else, and have even revealed to me more clearly some things about my work. I think I know exactly what you mean by the order of Grace; and of course by your references to Our Lady, upon which all my own small perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded. The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision."
Letter 142 (1953)

Tar-Elenion said:

There is an earlier reference:

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Thank you, T-E.

TMITM's harangues (not just in this thread) had quite simply gotten me annoyed to the



level, so I was definitely biting back, and hard. Laying the groundwork (or continuing to) for my Grump Badge ... 😈

TheManInTheMoon said:

So mallorn trees, at least few, existed in early Third Age, before the foundation of Dol Guldur probably. But Galadriel had never visited Lorien in TA until 10

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/l/laurelindorenan.php​

.

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I think you are mistaken. Galadriel and Celeborn resided in Laurelindórenan, "The Valley of the Singing Gold" as Treebeard calls it, in the Second Age, and probably after the end of the First Age. The King of that land was Amroth until T. A. 1940 or 1950 but he left and no one really knows what happened to him. He went to Belfalas chasing a girl. When he lost her he may have gone over the sea or committed suicide by drowning, I forget. But after that, Galadriel and Celeborn were the administrators, if not the rulers, of Lorien (the name changed at some time, either at the beginning of the Third Age or when Amroth left). Note that Galadriel and Celeborn did not adopt royal titles; they were "Lady" and "Lord," not Queen and King.

Oh, mallorns. I think they were always there, and gave the valley of the Silverlode its name: "The Valley of the Singing Gold,"