Where's 🧙Radagast? Anyone?

Great Khan · Jan 1, 2003

Although tolkien said nothing about the Blue Wizards they had names apparently

Alatar: was one of the three original wizards with Saruman and Gandalf

Pallando: was brought to middle earth because he was friends with Alatar

it seems that Radaghast and Pallando were not intended to go to middle earth

Aulë · Jan 1, 2003

Alatar was one of the original three Wizards selected by the Valar for the journey from Valinor to Middle-earth (the other two being Curumo and Olórin - Saruman and Gandalf).

The Valar originally intended to send just three Maiar as emissaries to Middle-earth. Aiwendil (Radagast) was added to this number by Yavanna, and Pallando was taken by Alatar 'as a friend'.

Alatar and Pallando arrived in Middle-earth dressed in sea-blue. For this reason, they were together given the name Ithryn Luin, the Blue Wizards. With Saruman, they journeyed into the far east of Middle-earth, but while Saruman returned to the west, Alatar and Pallando did not. Of their fate, we know almost nothing.

(Source: http://www.glyphweb.com)

Celebthôl · Jan 1, 2003

K please delete this its in the wrong place, Pippin_Took beat me too it

Aulë · Jan 1, 2003

Sorry, I'm getting into a habit of beating people to the mark by a matter of seconds....

Celebthôl · Jan 1, 2003

well it was more half-an-hourish but i didnt read all the posts, no matter at least the quote and point got across!

Thôl

Maeglin · Feb 4, 2003

And just a few more questions about Radagast.....

First of all I just want to request to any mod that might read this to merge all of the Radagast threads, as have been done with the Bombadil threads, because there are a ton of threads concerning Radagast the Brown.

Okay anyway here's my questions.....

"It was Radagast the Brown, who at one time dwelt at Rhosgobel, near the borders of Mirkwood."

I was under the impression that Radagast had always lived there, but since he apparently doesn't, where does he live at this time, does he just wander around, sort of like Gandalf does? And what kind of a place was Rhosgobel, was it a nice place sort of like Isengard was, though definitely nowhere near as great as Isengard, does anyone have any info on this?

"I will do that," he said, and rode off as if the Nine were after him.

What is Radagast so afraid of that he would be riding off so fast like this, and wouldn't even stop and talk with another member of his order and an old friend of his? He can't be afraid of the Nine, they were not after him, but after Frodo.

Just a few things I noticed, can anyone help me out?

BlackCaptain · Feb 4, 2003

As for your first question, he was probly studdying more birds and stuff in middle earth, and traveling alot. Rhogsobel is probly his home were he keeps all of his long-term posetions
As for your second, im sure he just wanted to make good time. If Gandalf asked him this favor, you wouldnt expect him to trod along at 5mph would u? iduno, just some ideas

Gothmog · Feb 5, 2003

First of all I just want to request to any mod that might read this to merge all of the Radagast threads

Ask and Ye Shall be answered.

Mrs. Maggott · Feb 5, 2003

Re: And just a few more questions about Radagast.....

Originally posted by Glorfindel1187

What is Radagast so afraid of that he would be riding off so fast like this, and wouldn't even stop and talk with another member of his order and an old friend of his? He can't be afraid of the Nine, they were not after him, but after Frodo.

Just a few things I noticed, can anyone help me out?

Even more interesting, where was he that Saruman was able to find and use him to lure Gandalf to Orthanc? I was of the opinion that R. was pretty much a stay-at-home, but obvioiusly he had to be somewhere near Orthanc for Saruman to be able to use him as a messenger boy.

aragil · Feb 5, 2003

Rhosbogel (Radagast's home) is relatively near the Gladden Fields. In the tale of years we are told that Saruman kept agents near the Gladden Fields, in an effort to locate the Ring. Presumably Saruman could have used such an agent to contact Radagast.
There is also the story from UT which says that Saruman and Radagast came over from the West together (this contradicts the published work which says Saruman came alone). If the UT passage is "correct", then perhaps would expect Saruman and Radagast to stay in contact more, even if Saruman secretly felt Radagast was an idiot.

Incidentally, the good guys had a hard time trying to catch Radagast at home. After the council of Elrond Elrond's sons go to Lorien to inform the Lord and Lady of the Ring quest- it mentions that they go to Rhosbogel but can not find Radagast.

Maeglin · Feb 5, 2003

Maybe Saruman decided he didn't need him anymore and decided to kill him off, as he may have done to the Ithryn Luin, for the passage in UT also says that the Blue Istari traveled into the East with Saruman, but never returned as he did. However, I find it unlikely that Saruman had killed them because he was not yet evil, even though at that time he though Radagast was an idiot too.

redline2200 · Feb 5, 2003

I have always wondered this but never really got an answer: Why do you think Gandalf never tried to get Radagast as an ally while the War of the Ring was taking place? I realize Radagast was not as powerful as Gandalf, but he was still a wizard, it's not like he was weak!

Here is Gandalf speaking in "The Council of Elrond"

Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue; and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends.

It seems like an ally that can change his appearence and has a strong connection with birds and animals would be a strong ally indeed. I just think that if 2 wizards would have been allyed against Sauron then the good side would have had alot more power and advantages.
It's like Gandalf never even attempted to draw Radagast to his cause. Why not?

Mrs. Maggott · Feb 5, 2003

It may be that once the Ring left the Shire, there simply wasn't time to engage anyone's help other than those present at the Council of Elrond. It is difficult to remember, but really, aside from the "prologue", the entire story of LOTR takes place within one year and given the transportation available at that time period in history, there was no way Radagast could have been brought "on board" in a timely fashion.

However, I don't doubt that he assisted the people in the north (Dale, Erebor, Esgoroth and the Elves of Mirkwood) when Sauron struck that area, so he probably did his own bit in the War of the Ring.

redline2200 · Feb 5, 2003

That is a good point, but I don't think that is the reason because Gandalf ran into Radagast face-to-face before his imprisonment on Orthanc. He should have just said something there.

aragil · Feb 5, 2003

I'm sure that when Gandalf went to Orthanc he was invisioning that all three Wizards would be united along with the leaders of the free peoples. Radagast had come to Gandalf on an errand from Saruman- why wouldn't Gandalf assume that Radagast would eventually come to Orthanc as well, where the three Wizards would be able to plot the course of the future?

Re. the attempts to reach Radagast, here's the passage from the book:

The hobbits had been nearly two months in the House of Elrond, and November had gone by with the last shreds of autumn, and December was passing, when the scouts began to return. Some had gone north beyond the springs of the Hoarwell into the Ettenmoors; and others had gone west, and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood, as far as Tharbad, where the old North Road crossed the river by a ruined town. Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair. The sons of Elrond, Elladan and Elrohir, were the last to return; they had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode into a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond.

Obviously an attempt was made- Radagast just wasn't home.

Mrs. Maggott · Feb 5, 2003

Originally posted by redline2200
That is a good point, but I don't think that is the reason because Gandalf ran into Radagast face-to-face before his imprisonment on Orthanc. He should have just said something there.

From the way the conversation went, it would seem R. was in an awful hurry to get somewhere. However, Gandalf did stop him long enough to request sending the eagle (which was certainly useful) to both Wizards at Orthanc. I don't imagine whatever R.'s hurry was all about, Gandalf could have prevailed upon him to do much else given how determined he was to leave instantly. Certainly, R. was not familiar enough with the Shire and Frodo to take the message that Gandalf entrusted to Butterbur.

R.'s need for haste is just one more thing not explained in LOTR, as it was not considered necessary for the narrative.

Mrs. Maggott · Feb 5, 2003

There are a couple of reasons why Gandalf would not think that the three Wizards would be in Orthanc "running things". The first is that he was going to be with Frodo when he left the Shire, that's certain. His trip to Orthanc was in hopes of obtaining something from Saruman that would help against the Nine on that very journey.

Secondly, it is obvious that he doesn't see this scenario when he asks Radagast to send an eagle to "the two of us" - he and Saruman - in Orthanc. If in fact the three Wizards would be putting their heads together and adopting strategy, then Radagast would have accompanied Gandalf south. There simply wasn't time to do anything else.

As for R. not "being home", it is possible that Saruman or Sauron had him waylaid and destroyed or at least rendered harmless for the duration. I don't remember much being said about him after the business with the eagle he sends to Orthanc. On the other hand, if things were heating up in the north (and they were), he might have been going about seeing what was up, so to speak, and giving assistance and advice to the local free peoples in that area.

aragil · Feb 5, 2003

If Radagast was sending Eagles with news to Orthanc (and he was), then we can assume that Gandalf would have considered that as being in contact with Radagast while he and Saruman were making whatever plans.

Re. Radagast's further exploits: the Eagles played a part in the remaining War of the Ring- rescuing Gandalf from the peak and attacking Sauron's forces at the Black Gates. You could interpret this to be at the bidding of Radagast, if you like. Of course, in that case Radagast should have had a spot on that last boat to Valinor ...

Maeglin · Feb 5, 2003

Well the boat Gandalf took to Valinor was not the last boat, so it is possible that he went later on when Cirdan left, for he was enamoured with the birds and the beasts of middle-earth and may not have wanted to leave them yet.

aragil · Feb 5, 2003

This is possible, Glorfindel, and it is certainly my preferred reading. However, I note that Tolkien says several different times that Gandalf was the only Istar to succeed in his job, and thus presumably the only one let back into Valinor. However, there are a lot of boats never mentioned- Cirdan is never explicitly mentioned, Celeborn is never explicitly mentioned, and whether Elladan and Elrohir went back or not is never mentioned. Personally I prefer to think they all went back together- if Radagast was also on board then that is fine with me as well.

Where's 🧙Radagast? Anyone?

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