Where's 🧙Radagast? Anyone?

Saermegil · Dec 20, 2003

I agree with elgee. i think Radagast being a hero just like Gandalf, appering just when you need him just like Gandalf would be too much. it would diminish Gandalf's role. Also I like Radagast being good but not that-kind-of-good. It ads a bit of grey in a largely black and white kind of story.

Úlairi · Dec 20, 2003

Ah! But we like the Grey! Or is it white?

Lantarion · Dec 20, 2003

Haha, oh how we love puns around here..

But I would agree with Elgee's 'treeishness'-theory. Think about it: Yavanna sent Aiwendil mostly for the purpose of looking after the living things of Middle-earth not yet under Sauron's heel. But he is said to have "forsaken his quest", so he must have been sent with the partial explanation (excuse?) of helping the Free People against Sauron, which quest he did not actively undertake (as it wasn't his actual quest in the first place).
So, after Sauron is overthrown there is no need for Aiwendil to actively work for the good of all olvar and kelvar, but he rather becomes as one of them, thus 'fulfilling' his purpose by blending with the very natural texture of Middle-earth.

Úlairi · Dec 21, 2003

Perhaps, but I believe that explanation I offered may have been a little more accurate, as it was derived from the texts. I will always believe that eventually Aiwendil returned to Valinor and sat down and had a nice chat with Yavanna about all that he'd discovered, for that may have been the reason he was sent in the first place!

HLGStrider · Aug 24, 2004

I think at this point Radagast has already become clueless and ineffective. He is easily duped by good old Sarumen and sent on his way and seems in quite a hurry to get back home to check on his pet trees.

I always figured that the fellow ended up sleeping his life away in the forest somewhere, eventually becoming a Rip Van Winkle-ish character with a LOT of moss in his beard.

Inderjit S · Aug 30, 2004

Aragorn states the only a few-Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn and Gandalf could fail to be duped by Saruman. I don't think Radagast was foolish-perhaps, since the message seemed to be in good faith, anybody would have suspected Saruman of perfidy, despite the fact that they did suspect him of something. Plus, Radagast was the master in his own field, just like Gandalf was the master in his. Radagast loved and aided the trees and beasts, and I am sure he helped them a lot, even if his help went, by and large, unappreciated, and was needless in the eyes of many. Some would say that he was wasting his talents-but if he was using his talents in the field in which he was most talented then surely his dealing with the birds and beasts etc. of Middle-Earth was not such a bad idea?

HLGStrider · Aug 31, 2004

My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.

I could accept that he'd been sent as an "ambassador to the trees and animals" if he'd actually been seen doing something of the like. Trees and animals were obviously hurt by Sauron's rule as well. . .but we don't directly see him doing anything to protect them.

Arthur_Vandelay · Aug 31, 2004

HLGStrider said:
My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.

I could accept that he'd been sent as an "ambassador to the trees and animals" if he'd actually been seen doing something of the like. Trees and animals were obviously hurt by Sauron's rule as well. . .but we don't directly see him doing anything to protect them.

And what kinds of things can Radagast do? Does he wield "power" over the trees and beasts in his care? Or is he a loremaster? Is Radagast to Mirkwood as Tom Bombadil is to the Old Forest/Barrow Downs?

HLGStrider · Aug 31, 2004

Don't look at me. It was Jr who suggested he have talents.

What I was thinking of was leading the animals through guidance away from Sauron, sheltering them somehow. Fighting Orcs for trees when they began hewing. ..something. . .maybe Entish.

Arthur_Vandelay · Aug 31, 2004

HLGStrider said:
Don't look at me. It was Jr who suggested he have talents.

The questions were meant to be for discussion. No malice intended.

HLGStrider · Aug 31, 2004

Arthur_Vandelay said:
The questions were meant to be for discussion. No malice intended.

No malice read into it.
Though I'm still giving it over to Junior. Just because I love to torture him so and it is too late for me to post more than fragments.
Don't post in whole sentences this late at night. Don't don't don't.

Arthur_Vandelay · Aug 31, 2004

HLGStrider said:
No malice read into it.
Though I'm still giving it over to Junior. Just because I love to torture him so and it is too late for me to post more than fragments.
Don't post in whole sentences this late at night. Don't don't don't.

Right. Will keep that in mind.

Inderjit S · Aug 31, 2004

My question would be, using them for what? You get the picture of him making friends with woodland creatures, but it never mentions him aiding them in fighting the darkness or protecting them from such.

To be honest I don't know. There are a plethora of different stories and adventures which could have taken place in Middle-Earth without us knowing. So there may have been a lot of different cases in which Radagast played an important part in brining about or helping good, add to this the general benefits of him helping the animals and caring for nature. I can only make judgements based on the level of my ignorance, and since we are not told much about good old Radagast I cannot name specifics, and can only turn to vague generalities, based on basic logic. Radagast was a good wizard, therefore it was logical that he helped the birds and beasts of Middle-Earth, just because we don't hear about his day-to-day activities doesn't he mean he did nothing at all. He may have, for example, aided the White Council in their driving out of Sauron from Mirkwood-e did live in the vicinity. Again another example-he resided close to Sauron therefore he most have done some things to counteract the plans of the dark lord, or he must have helped animals, or even Elves, Dwarves and Men out of bad situations.

HLGStrider · Sep 2, 2004

Tonight it is not too late to respond in full sentences so you will be redeemed from reading many fragments.

So we're left with an idea for a three volume novel series and very little more, I suppose. . .

On the other hand, Mirkwood seems to have gone from bad to worse under his watch.

Of course, we do sort of have to assume (well, we don't, but it seems more logical to assume) that he had something to do with casting the Necromancer out. I just can't see him, a member of the council, being in such proximity to the event without aiding it. . .at least not and still being in good standing with Gandalf which he was at the begining of the War of the Ring. Gandalf trusts him and doesn't seem to roll him eyes at him.

However, no one thinks to summon Radagast even though he has been in the area of the Shire before and is obviously able to travel there. Legolas could've picked him up on the way.There are many ways in which Radagast could have been successfully, or at least marginally, brought into the story, and instead we are left with naught.

Only the assumption that he was duped by Sarumen and then went away somewhere in humiliation to host a Discovery Channel Croc show.

HLGStrider · Sep 2, 2004

Arthur_Vandelay said:
Right. Will keep that in mind.

Just because I think you misunderstood me, not that it is important that you understand what is mainly a flippant post, but I thought I'd clarify that when I say "Don't post in complete sentences." It's not an order. It's an incomplete sentence missing the pronoun I as in "I don't."
I reserve the right to be unclear after midnight when I got as much sleep as I did the night before I posted that. . .

Inderjit S · Sep 2, 2004

On the other hand, Mirkwood seems to have gone from bad to worse under his watch.

To be fair, there wasn't much he, or anybody else could do, to stop that.

However, no one thinks to summon Radagast even though he has been in the area of the Shire before and is obviously able to travel there. Legolas could've picked him up on the way.There are many ways in which Radagast could have been successfully, or at least marginally, brought into the story, and instead we are left with naught.

Actually, they did try to contact him after the council, but he was not at home, well either that or he was stuck in the shower.

AustintheGreen · Sep 2, 2004

Inderjit S said:
Actually, they did try to contact him after the council, but he was not at home

Where does it say that?

Inderjit S · Sep 3, 2004

while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden river, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields, and so at length reached the old home of Radagst at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there

'The Ring Goes South'

HLGStrider · Sep 4, 2004

Thanks, Jr.

That quote just took me back to my first reading, long before I pounced down upon here and began to discuss everything to death.

I remember that one line to me seemed loaded. "Radagast was not there." Pretty simple. No explanation. Left to imagination.

My imagination automatically assumed he'd been done away with.

It just seemed logical that he was not there because he'd fallen to foul play. I need to look on the map. I can't remember where Rhosgobel is right now. . .
Anyway, is THAT a possibility? Could he have been ensnared? Disembodied and not thought of enough importance for the valar to resurect him? It could be that he was withdrawn the way the Elves were and the way Gandalf was but just a little prematurely?

Narsil · Sep 4, 2004

Sounds like Radagast didn't get around much. In Fellowship it describes how he found Gandalf not far from Bree and said to him "All I knew was that you might be found in a wild region with the uncouth name of Shire". He had no idea where or what the Shire was and didn't seem too happy about having to travel far to find Gandalf.

He then gave Gandalf the message that he needed to go see Saruman. Gandalf told Radagast that his help would be needed and to send out messages about what was happening to the birds and beasts. Radagast did so and as a direct result Gandalf was rescued from the top of Orthanc by Gwaihir the Windlord.

At the Council of Elrond Gandalf tells everyone that after speaking with him, Radagast rode off to Mirkwood to spread the word. The Eagle came looking for Gandalf to give him a message, found him on top of the tower and rescued him.

One thing that is apparent is that at no time is Radagast portrayed as evil or in league with evil. Quite the opposite. If anything he comes off as somewhat naive, honest and trusting.

One can only assume that Radagast did indeed play some part in the War of the Ring. Many did and weren't mentioned in the book. The battles of the Lonely Mountain and Dale, Mirkwood, etc could be a book in itself. Perhaps Radagast helped the Wood Elves or Dwarves at some point. Who knows?

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