Which are the Two Towers?

[Arvedui]

by the way, the other 2 you're thinking of are probably the White Towers, which are (fittingly) located on the White Downs to the west of the Shire.

Wasn't there 3 White Towers?

 

[Arvedui]

Greymantle.com, I don't understand how you have come to your rather peculiar conclusion?

Barad-Dûr did not exsist in the First Age, although Minas Ithil did. But that Minas Ithil didn't have have anything to do with The Lord of the Rings. That Minas Ithil was in Beleriand, and in the Third Age was under a lot of water.

As has been stated before, the Two towers in question was Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

 

[Aglarband]

I feel that which Two Towers it is redundant. considering it means nothing to the plot. Tolkein hated giving away the storyline of a book through the Title, so he called Books 1 and 2 Fellowship of the RIng, cause what the **** does that tell you? And The Two Towers, again no information about the book is given. Tolkein was very much against the idea of calling the 3rd book Return of the King, but the Publishers had already decided that as the title. The Two Towers can be any two towers you want them to be. I however feel the two towers are Orthanc and Minas Morgul, the towers of the star(?) and moon, considering that a tower with a star over it and a tower with a moon over it was the original book cover. Also it has the White Hand and the Eye underneath
See: http://www.tolkien.co.uk/images/downloads/wallpaper/tt_1280x1024.jpg

 

[Astaldo]

The problem is that all combination are possible.

1st) Barad-dur/Orthanc (The two evil towers)

2nd) Barad-dur/Minas Tirith (Opposite towers)

3rd) Orthanc/Minas Tirith (the same as above)

But before I read this discussion I thought it was Orthanc and Barad-dur, though now I am not so sure about it.

 

[Narsil]

The Two Towers can be any two towers you want them to be. I however feel the two towers are Orthanc and Minas Morgul, the towers of the star(?) and moon, considering that a tower with a star over it and a tower with a moon over it was the original book cover. Also it has the White Hand and the Eye underneath
See: http://www.tolkien.co.uk/images/downloads/wallpaper/tt_1280x1024.jpg

Interesting...I've never seen that cover. My set of books have pictures from the movies on them and my "Big Book" of LOTR definitely has Barad-dur on it.

I wonder how much input Tolkien himself had with that cover or was it something the publisher came up with? It's interesting because on the left side it definitely looks like Minas Morgul.., which was once Minas Ithil "Tower of the Moon". There's the moon above the tower and the earth below is black (symbolizing evil?)... and there's the red eye...

On the right side it looks to be Orthanc, and the white hand of Saruman is underneath. I'm wondering what the star represents ..Osgiliath is the "Fortress of the Stars"... Orthanc is "Forked Height"..Hmmm..

Now to add to the confusion...

When I finally read the Letters of JRRT and they make it clear that the author deemed Orthanc and Cirith Ungol to be the two to which the story referred. This is very logical if one thinks about it. Book 3 details the Broken Fellowship pursuing the Uruk-hai of Orthanc and ultimately the defeat of Saruman and the fall of Orthanc to the Ents. Thus Book 3 could have easily been entitled "The Fall of Orthanc".

Book 4 details Frodo and Samwise's passage along the edge of Mordor from the Dead Marshes to the Morannon to their final ascent into the mountains beyond Minas Morgul which ultimately ended with Frodo's capture in the Tower of Cirith Ungol. Thus Book 4 could have easily been entitled "Trapped in the Tower of Cirith Ungol". Looking at it this way makes it very easy for me to understand how the author decided upon which two towers to focus.

Well..If Tolkien himself said it was Orthanc and the Tower of Cirth Ungol I think that pretty much confirms it.

But then again, there's that book cover which Tolkien was said to have sketched and I tend to think Minas Morgul and Orthanc...

Before seeing that cover and reading about Tolkien's letter I was inclined to think of the "The Two Towers" as Barad-dur and Orthanc.

I guess I'm inclined to go with Orthanc and the tower of Cirith Ungol because these towers are featured in the book and heck, Tolkien did make mention of them.

 

[Ingwë]

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion. Then turning south again he beheld Minas Tirith. Far away it seemed. and beautiful: white-walled, many-towered, proud and fair upon its mountain-seat; its battlements glittered with steel, and its turrets were bright with many banners. Hope leaped in his heart. But against Minas Tirith was set another fortress, greater and more strong. Thither, eastward, unwilling his eye was drawn. It passed the ruined bridges of Osgiliath, the grinning gates of Minas Morgul. and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.

I think that's enough

 

[Alatar]

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion. Then turning south again he beheld Minas Tirith. Far away it seemed. and beautiful: white-walled, many-towered, proud and fair upon its mountain-seat; its battlements glittered with steel, and its turrets were bright with many banners. Hope leaped in his heart. But against Minas Tirith was set another fortress, greater and more strong. Thither, eastward, unwilling his eye was drawn. It passed the ruined bridges of Osgiliath, the grinning gates of Minas Morgul. and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. MountDoom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.

I think that's enough.
Seriously, i think that it is orthanc, and Minas morgul(which i think should have a tower, Barad Morgul, Barad Tirith..) as it the book is about saruman, and the reaching the stairs.
Btw, that quote was from the fellowship.

 

[ingolmo]

Yep, I'm with Alatar, it's Orthanc and Minas Morgul.
And how about making this a poll?

 

[Alatar]

Good idea, i'll ask a mod.

 

[Ingwë]

Orthanc and Minas Morgul are Evil towers; Minas Tirith is a White tower and Barad Dur is a Dark Tower. They are great enemies so I think these are the Two Towers

 

[Gothmog]

Ok, I haven't added a poll to this thread. (waits for everybody to check the top of the page again )

I have merged RD's thread (which did include a poll) into it

 

[Feorran]

I'm sorry if this has been stated before. I didn't bother to read the seventeen pages of discussion on which towers they are. I did read the first couple, and the latest-that was enough for me.

I think Tolkien purposefully titled it The Two Towers with no specific two towers in mind. As a sort of gimmick. So that we could discuss it for days on end... Heh.

 

[Luthien Elenese]

(sorry also if this has been said already)

I always thought it was Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul (the towers of Guard and Sorcery), formerly Minas Anor and Minas Ithil (the towers of Sun and Moon). Anor and Ithil would have been great strongholds in their time, named by Elendil for his two sons Isildur and Anarion. Then, in the third age they were both changed by the times, one now a place of stronghold of evil and the other, although still kept by the Numenorien rulers (or at least waiting for their rulers to return ), a shadow of it's former glory. Then, after the return of the king, both fortresses were reclaimed by king Elessar.

 

[Alatar]

Minas Tirth is not in it though, when Orthanc is. Though the to Minas' could be it.

 

[ingolmo]

Here's a qoute from The Return of the King Chapter 10: The Black Gate opens to liven up the arguments here.

... and now near loomed the great rampart of Cirith Gorgor, and the Black Gate amidmost, and the two Towers of the Teeth tall and dark upon either side...

Whatdya think?

 

[Kelendil]

I just finished FOTR again this afternoon, and this is what is says on the last page. I had never noticed it before, but I had the forum in mind. It says:


"Here ends the first part of the history of the War of the Ring. The second part is called THE TWO TOWERS, since the events recounted in it are dominated by ORTHANC, the citadel of Saruman, and the fortress of MINAS MORGUL, that guards the secret entrance to Mordor; it tells of the deeds and perils of all the members of the now sundered fellowship, until the coming of the great darkness."


Therein lies the answer.

 

[Ingwë]

This is endless thread...
If we think about Book Two, 'The Two Towers', then the Two Towers are Orthanc and Minas Morgul. If we think about the Book 'The Lord of the Rings', then I think that two towers are Minas Tirith and Barad-Dur. The Dark lord attacked the White Tower - Minas Tirith.

 

[ingolmo]

But this thread is about the Two Towers, not the LotR. If it were about LotR, there would be innumerable choices for the two towers. And if it is said in the LotR, then it's correct. That said, Minas Morgul and Orthanc are the Two Towers.

 

[Ingwë]

J. R. R. Tolkien - Letter 140
I now suggest as titles of the Volumes under the over-all title lord of the Rings: Volume I: The Fellowship of the Ring, Volume II: The Two Towers, Volume III: The War of the Ring (or, if you still prefer that: The Return of the King).
The Fellowship of the Ring will do, I think, and it fits with the fact that the last chapter of the Volume is the "Breaking of the Fellowship". [highlight]The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 and 4; and can be left ambigious: I might refer to Isengard and Barad-dur, or to Minas Tirith and Barad-dur or to Isegard and Cirith Ungol.[/highlight] On reflections I prefer for Volume III The War of the Ring, since it gets to the Ring again and also is more non-committal, and gives less hinty of the story: the chapter titles have been chosen also to give away as little as possible in advance. But I am not set in my choice...

Is that enough?

 

[Elthir]

A Tolkien approved quote, and published in The Lord of the Rings...


"Here ends the first part of the history of the War of the Ring. The second part is called THE TWO TOWERS, since the events recounted in it are dominated by ORTHANC, the citadel of Saruman, and the fortress of MINAS MORGUL, that guards the secret entrance to Mordor; it tells of the deeds and perils of all the members of the now sundered fellowship, until the coming of the great darkness."


And already posted too, but perhaps not yet in this colour

Galin