Which side would 🧙Saruman pick?

[BalrogRingDestroyer]

I know Saruman's intention was to get the Ring for himself, but let's assume that, for whatever reason, the orcs of Isengard hadn't gotten there first and that Merry and Pippin were captured and were en route to Mordor via a Nazgul and Gandalf somehow knew about it and Saruman soon encountered him and Gandalf said that neither of them alone was strong enough to free the Hobbits, but that if they worked together they would free them and Sauron would think that Merry or Pippin was one of them that had the Ring, but if they didn't, then, though Merry and Pippin didn't have the Ring, Sauron would torture the truth out of them and grab Frodo and Sam and get the Ring and rule Middle Earth and that since Gandalf had no clue where they were exactly at and wouldn't tell Saruman anyway even if he did know, that Sauron would find them before he could anyway if Merry and Pippin squealed under pressure, would Saurman decide to help Gandalf and risk Suaron's wrath if the Ring was found anyway, or would Saruman join Sauron, especially as Sauron didn't know that he'd tried to double cross him?

Presumably in The Two Towers, in addition to his pride, Saruman didn't think either side would be kind to him if they won the war and so he refused to help Gandalf. However, in this case, it's unknown what Sauron would do if Saruman didn't help Gandalf and he won, and here he wasn't beaten up yet and still had an orc army to fight Mordor.

(Granted, I can see Saurman helping Gandalf here, if only for somewhat of a similar reason Gollum helped Frodo find another route, in that he'd rather help the good guys, for a while, than risk the Ring falling into Sauron's hands again, and plan to double cross him later.)

I'm just curious what Saruman would have done if faced with the option of either redeeming himself and helping Gandalf or submitting to Sauron as his new lord, and he had NO chance of getting the Ring himself (at least for the time being) and knew it.

 

[Deleted member 12094]

I couldn't read your first phrase in 1 breath...!

I agree with you that, had Merry and Pippin been taken prisoner and taken to Mordor, the secret of Frodo's mission would have been revealed.

However, a secret it was, in particular also to Saruman who did not get any direct news from the Ring. Remember Gandalf's answer to his questions:

But I would not give it, nay, I would not give even news of it to you, now that I learn your mind.​

It is mentioned at various occasions that Saruman was spying far and wide ("For I have many eyes in my service"). His attack at Parth Galen shows that he had become aware that the Ring was moving south; however, I never thought he had any knowledge of the intention to actually destroy the Ring. By that time he was distrusted by all and none would call him for help for a mission kept secret to him.

His raiders might have chosen pursuit of the kidnappers from Mordor (and thereby snatching the wrong hobbits and still saving Frodo's mission if they succeeded). Whatever... Saruman was far away in Isengard and Gandalf supposedly dead; so I cannot see how the scenario you proposed could fit.

 

[BalrogRingDestroyer]

I know it's far fetched, but I was wondering if Saruman was put into a situation where he'd either have to swallow his pride and seek amends and rejoin Gandalf to stop Sauron or else accept being a servant of Sauron, which one he'd pick. The scenario above, though far fetched, was what first came to my mind.

I somehow think when Saruman lured Gandalf to his lair and once suggested that the Wise ally with Sauron and help him win only later to try and control him like a puppet, that he was merely trying to toy with Gandalf in scaring him into picking himself as the new leader of the world, and that he NEVER would want to truly serve Sauron and Mordor. Of course, the irony, as was stated in The Scouring of the Shire, was that he was doing Mordor's will the whole time, even though he thought he was doing his own.

 

[Deleted member 12094]

I agree with you.

The way Saruman's character is depicted in LotR, he would choose no side but his own. His hope for dominion of ME was based on conquering the Ring. There was no other logic left in his mind, if I understood his actions correctly.

 

[Aldarion]

Thing is, his plans depended on the Ring. So if somebody else had the Ring, would he have conceded defeat, or tried to fight?