Who would win between Olorin and 👁️Sauron?

[redline2200]

If there was a direct confrontation between Olorin (as his true Maia form, not his Gandalf form) and Sauron (also assuming he was in full form) who would be the victor?

 

[BlackCaptain]

Well, I think that Sauron would win cuz he's the next best thing to Melkor, and Olorin is just another Maiar in the good-people-spirit-world.

 

[redline2200]

But whose to say Sauron is even that powerful among the Maiar? He may be one of the most powerful of Morgoths forces, but Morgoth's forces were just ordinary Maia that fell. The bad Maia weren't neccesarily the best Maia just the ones that were decieved.
I'm not at all trying to contradict you, I was just making a point that you might not have thought about.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Good point, but could Melkor beat Gandalf, yes. The very next best thing to him could probably take him as well. And Gandalf even has trouble fending off the witch-king, letalone Sauron. Were talkin about the biggest force in all ME, Sauron. Im sure if Olorin could take Sauron, he wouldve left Gandalf's body and fought him on the slopes of doom er somthin...

 

[Maeglin]

Morgulking he would not have done that, The Istari are NOT ALLOWED to show themselves in forms of power or majesty, which is why they look like old men, and they are forbidden to match Sauron's power with their own Power, their mission is to unite men and elves against Sauron, but not use their own power against him, at least not any more than is absolutely necessary.

And Morgulking you speak of Gandalf having trouble taking on the witch king, that is for the reason's that I stated above, he's not allowed to use his full power, and also because in Middle-Earth he is Gandalf, not Olorin, Olorin in his true Maia form could take on the witch-king easily.

That being said, I'm still not sure who would win, because Sauron is very powerful. But maybe Olorin could take him on, because if you remember when he becomes Gandalf the White he says "none can now defeat me save the enemy himself," or something along those lines, so that leads me to believe that Olorin could beat Sauron, but I'm not gonna vote on this cause I'm still really not sure.

 

[Gandalf White]

And Gandalf even has trouble fending off the witch-king,

I can't agree with that. When he was only Gandalf the GREY, he managed to fend off ALL NINE at once. True, he had to run away, but as the white and facing only the witch-king I believe he would have no problem. After all Gandalf is a Maia and the witch-king is only a man, howbeit powerful.
I really can't decide who would win between Gandalf and Sauron, although I'm rather biased to Gandalf, for obvious reasons!

 

[Hadhafang]

Gandalf the Grey smoked the Balrog who is probably a step below Sauron in power. My guess would be that Gandalf the White being a step higher than "Grey" would defeat Sauron one-on-one. Since Gandalf the white would most likely defeat Sauron...Olorin would pulverize Sauron.

 

[FoolOfATook]

Gandalf the Grey smoked the Balrog

Don't make it sound too one-sided... Durin's Bane got his licks in too

Right now I'm trying to remember conflicts in which Maia was pitted against Maia (and not Maia v. Istari, since we've established that those situations are of little value in determining a Maia's true strength). For some reason, I'm drawing a total blank, although it seems unlikely to me that there are no such conflicts in the Tolkien Legendarum. Once we have some frame of reference for what all-out fighting between Maiar, then we can begin... or is this one of those questions that just too hypothetical to really begin?

When I don't sleep enough I get all stream-of-conciousness.

 

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Glorfindel1187
Morgulking he would not have done that, The Istari are NOT ALLOWED to show themselves in forms of power or majesty, which is why they look like old men, and they are forbidden to match Sauron's power with their own Power, their mission is to unite men and elves against Sauron, but not use their own power against him, at least not any more than is absolutely necessary.

And Morgulking you speak of Gandalf having trouble taking on the witch king, that is for the reason's that I stated above, he's not allowed to use his full power, and also because in Middle-Earth he is Gandalf, not Olorin, Olorin in his true Maia form could take on the witch-king easily.

That being said, I'm still not sure who would win, because Sauron is very powerful. But maybe Olorin could take him on, because if you remember when he becomes Gandalf the White he says "none can now defeat me save the enemy himself," or something along those lines, so that leads me to believe that Olorin could beat Sauron, but I'm not gonna vote on this cause I'm still really not sure.

That is right my fellow elf!There is nothing I can add.

 

[Wynston]

First, I have to agree here with those that said this wouldn't happen. This is exactly what the Istari were forbidden to do.

I can think of two circumstances in which Sauron was defeated in combat. One, is where Beren and Luthien bested him, and two is where Gil-Galad and Elendil defeated him. (although they both died) So, no matter how powerful, Sauron could be defeated in single combat. I would have to say that Olorin, in his Maia form, not in and Gandalf form, would have been more powerful than Beren/Luthien (although Luthien was part Maia) or Elendil/Gil-Galad. It is conceivable that, especially without the ring, Olorin in his Maia form could have defeated Sauron.

That being said, I think the better answer is that the Istari weren't sent to middle earth to match power with Sauron. Their purspose is to guide, and influence, and in a sense prepare the men for a time when they will be on their own. Its almost like that old saying, you can give a man a fish, but if you teach him how to fish, he will never go hungry. (or something like that!)

 

[Ghan-buri-ghan]

New Orders For The Istari!

I have to agree and disagree with Glorfindel, Wynston, and Gil-Galad about the Istari.

The Appendices do say all that about the mission of the Istari. However, it appears when Gandalf the White came back, he had received new orders.

He revealed his power rescuing Faramir on the Field of Pelennor. His bolts of white fire dispersed the pursuing Nazgul. If the Nazgul had attacked him instead of running away what result? Can there be any doubt that Gandalf would have fought it out with the Nazgul on the Fields?

And when Grond broke the Gate of Minas Tirith, and Gandalf was there, alone on Shadowfax, was he prepared to "hide his power?" Can anyone doubt that had the Witch King ridden through the gate Gandalf would have confronted him one on one?

True, he did NOT use his power at the gates of Barad-Dur. I don't know why -- perhaps because the Eagles came and attacked the Nazgul, but, there, I'm speculating.

But there are apparently some conditions under which Gandalf the White uses his full powers.

 

[BlackCaptain]

Allright. I agree now too.

Ive been proved wrong again! haha... i mean... Constructively Critisized.

 

[Ghan-buri-ghan]

New Orders For the Istari, continued

Of course I meant the Black Gates of Mordor, not the gates to Barad-Dur.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Hmmm...I suppose Olorin would win. Do you mean Sauron as he is at the end of the 3rd Age or at the beginning of his servitude to Melkor?
Sauron is no warrior and Gandalf has proven himself in his trial with the Balrog.

 

[Maeglin]

Yeah but Sauron can fight if need be, or at least he's good at running away from a fight! But thats a good question about which Sauron, because I think he was more powerful with Melkor than he was without him.

 

[redline2200]

Originally posted by Ghan-buri-ghan
But there are apparently some conditions under which Gandalf the White uses his full powers.

I disagree.

First, I don't think Gandalf shooting white fire was the fullest extent of his Maia power. I mean these are Ainur for Pete's sake! Compare some white fire to the girdle of Melian or the waves of Osse or any other demonstration of Maia power; I think there was more to Olorin.

Second, Who ever said that the Istari could use their Maia power? Maybe by being put into old man bodies they were physically limited to use open power, as in they couldn't if they wanted to. Saruman turned his back on the Valar anyway, so he probably didn't care what they said; you think he would have used his open power if he could have. The ban of the Valar on the Istari probably would have meant little to Saruman, assuming he could use his open power.

 

[Maeglin]

You took the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard rather) Redline2200, I can't add any more to that.

 

[10000 strong]

Well Gandalf The White against Sauron.... Gandalf...

 

[Lantarion]

A lot of you have very high expectations for poor old Olórin!
Sauron was perhaps the mightiest Maia in the service of Melkor, and that's saying a lot. Although his powers are more focused on fear and terror, rather than direct strength like Eönwë's, he is still a very powerful Maia; I would say that only Melian and Eönwë might withstand him..
Whereas it is explicitly stated in the Silmarillion that Olórin was the wisest of the Maiar, not the strongest or the most powerful. His strength lay rather in mingling with the Children of Ilúvatar and helping them to withstand Sauron on their own. Obviously, he was no weakling when it came to magic and the like: after all, he did almost kill the Necromancer/Sauron once. But I forget, was he on his own or was the whole White Council there?

As the White he would have whooped Sauron's butt, but I still don't think he could have killed Sauron.

 

[BlackCaptain]

10,000 strong, I have to disagree. If Gandalf the White couldve beaten Sauron, he would have. So why didnt he? Olorin could beat Sauron, maybey. That would be a good match. But not Gandalf in any form I think. I like how redline put it, they are limited when put in the bodies of old men.

Lantarion, I agree with you the most. Thats what I said in an earlier post, but you sort of, said it clearer. Thanks.

The next best thing to Melkor vs. The wisest spirit

I choose Sauron